Evidence of ocean influence

[steve]

So you've not read those emails where the scientists are arguing among themselves about all sorts of scientific issues. I thought everyone had read those emails!

[oloflind]

magellan,
serious cloud research, of course ignored by IPCC, is going on. Have a look at the soon starting CLOUD project tests at CERN in Switzerland:
public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Research/CLOUD-en.html
I believe the Svensmark theory can represent a major factor of climate change - it will be thrilling to see what conclusions we will see from the CERN tests

[icefisher]

Nov 24, 2009 20:22:45 GMT oloflind said:

magellan,
serious cloud research, of course ignored by IPCC, is going on. Have a look at the soon starting CLOUD project tests at CERN in Switzerland:
public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Research/CLOUD-en.html
I believe the Svensmark theory can represent a major factor of climate change - it will be thrilling to see what conclusions we will see from the CERN tests

The CERN tests are one thing and maybe only part of the answer. With most natural systems there are large numbers of inputs. So many its difficult to model even the most modest of natural systems. . . .like fish reproduction. Its difficult enough in an aquaculture setting where you can control the environment. In nature and all the wild elements its little more than a crap shoot.

Magnetic energy issues are not being investigated by CERN and another way to influence clouds is influencing volcanic activity. . . .cosmic rays probably doesn't do that. . . .the variations we have seen the sun might be just an indicator of much larger effects down the road that may not leave too many traces behind.

I can't help to think we have gotten so far off track with this CO2 thing. I am old enough to remember many crop failures from the cold spells of the 50's and 60's. A cold spell would seem to be a far greater threat than modest warming of the climate. Being able to predict cooling would be an extremely valuable aid for our food producers. . . .perhaps that is why the Farmers Almanacs have enjoyed two centuries of success.

[sigurdur]

Nov 24, 2009 20:38:12 GMT icefisher said:

Nov 24, 2009 20:22:45 GMT oloflind said:

magellan,
serious cloud research, of course ignored by IPCC, is going on. Have a look at the soon starting CLOUD project tests at CERN in Switzerland:
public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Research/CLOUD-en.html
I believe the Svensmark theory can represent a major factor of climate change - it will be thrilling to see what conclusions we will see from the CERN tests

The CERN tests are one thing and maybe only part of the answer. With most natural systems there are large numbers of inputs. So many its difficult to model even the most modest of natural systems. . . .like fish reproduction. Its difficult enough in an aquaculture setting where you can control the environment. In nature and all the wild elements its little more than a crap shoot.

Magnetic energy issues are not being investigated by CERN and another way to influence clouds is influencing volcanic activity. . . .cosmic rays probably doesn't do that. . . .the variations we have seen the sun might be just an indicator of much larger effects down the road that may not leave too many traces behind.

I can't help to think we have gotten so far off track with this CO2 thing. I am old enough to remember many crop failures from the cold spells of the 50's and 60's. A cold spell would seem to be a far greater threat than modest warming of the climate. Being able to predict cooling would be an extremely valuable aid for our food producers. . . .perhaps that is why the Farmers Almanacs have enjoyed two centuries of success.

I have lost wayyyyyyyyyy more crop to cold than to heat. 2005 I disked down every acre of corn as an example. Have had wheat freeze...beans freeze.....spuds freeze. And these freezes were not during the time of year that there should be a frost. And they have happened in the past 15 years. August frost just is NOT a good thing.

[steve]

Sigurdur,

I have lost wayyyyyyyyyy more crop to cold than to heat. 2005 I disked down every acre of corn as an example. Have had wheat freeze...beans freeze.....spuds freeze. And these freezes were not during the time of year that there should be a frost. And they have happened in the past 15 years. August frost just is NOT a good thing.

I often say that I believe in the temperature data because my own lifetime experience confirms it.

Looking at North Dakota statistics on something like the following shows that in the summer autumn months, North Dakota has experienced no warming as compared with the 1961-1990 mean, and, yes, August 2005 looks a bit chilly.

www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/data/usclimdivs/

So they've not been faking *your* temperature data.

[icefisher]

Nov 25, 2009 10:58:42 GMT steve said:

Sigurdur,

I have lost wayyyyyyyyyy more crop to cold than to heat. 2005 I disked down every acre of corn as an example. Have had wheat freeze...beans freeze.....spuds freeze. And these freezes were not during the time of year that there should be a frost. And they have happened in the past 15 years. August frost just is NOT a good thing.

I often say that I believe in the temperature data because my own lifetime experience confirms it.

Looking at North Dakota statistics on something like the following shows that in the summer autumn months, North Dakota has experienced no warming as compared with the 1961-1990 mean, and, yes, August 2005 looks a bit chilly.

www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/data/usclimdivs/

So they've not been faking *your* temperature data.

Since CRU methodology seems to be sort of a group think process "I used Mike's Nature trick". . . .one would have to extrapolate that they selected a single station found somewhere in northern Russia and Siberia; and gridded it with 9 other stations, perhaps on Baffin Island.

But who knows. . . . they would rather erase the file than subject it to close scrutiny.