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Post by graywolf on Jan 7, 2010 16:53:58 GMT
hunter, how many sq km of ice shelf have been lost in Antarctica since 1985? this area is now classed as sea and so ,come winter re-freeze is now included in the figures. Ever wonder about that?
jpowel, sea ice of 2m thickness can easily ride over other ice once it has gained forward momentum.Not so office block sized chunks of 'old perennial'. Your fact of 'ice compression' surely does illustrate well what a poor state the ice is in currently.
hunter, gets cold when the sun goes down for the year doesn't it? As with Antarctica we are now a pproaching a 'seasonal; pack' in the Arctic with complete meltout over summer (and ,for the pedants, of course there will always be a bit left over until sea temps are high enough).
Why did you not post ice volumes or min ice extents from the same years? An inconvenient truth maybe?
Ho Hum, ice extent still pretty low eh?;-)
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Post by hairball on Jan 7, 2010 17:08:47 GMT
Well, in the last couple of years newspapers said that an area the size of Connecticut (15,000km^2) had broken off of the Wilkins ice shelf. I could only find reports of about 1/3 of this actually being lost. An insignificant truth perhaps?
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Post by graywolf on Jan 7, 2010 17:16:37 GMT
Would it not be correct to be of the opinion that once it is 'free floating bergy bits' it's classed as 'sea Ice' (seeing as it is no longer connected to any ice shelf). If we look at the area lost from Antarctica over the last 10yrs you'd have to ask if we are not seeing a drastic reduction in sea ice there seeing as the possible coastal area now open to winter freeze is now bigger than humanity has ever measured before. Haven't we a swarm of Bergs from the Ross ice shelf losses to the south of Oz at the mo?
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Post by hairball on Jan 7, 2010 17:32:29 GMT
Do you think those icebergs are counted as Antarctic sea-ice? Honestly? Antarctic sea-ice has been observed at record extent the last few years and it's not because of lost ice shelf. How much was lost during the MWP?
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Post by graywolf on Jan 7, 2010 19:05:03 GMT
How topical .
Not seen any reports yet but if you check out either Modis Terra or Aqua for todays images of the Ross ice shelf, then track down towards Roosevelt island (East Ross Ice shelf), you'll find the remnant left by the B15 calve (the berg now south of Oz? or part of it) has shattered into the Ross sea.
Now why di it do a 'Wilkins' and not calve off as a berg like it's brother B15? Lot of high temp anoms in the Ross sea up against the coast at the mo isn't there?
Didn't they put the mid winter collaspe of Wilkins, in domino fashion, down to warm water? (or the seals in thermometer caps told them it was warm water that did done it...lol)
Still attached on the 5th, a mess of 'sea ice' today.
Did you know Ross is the size of France? that it holds baclk most of the outlet from EAIS?
I even think I can see a fissure well back from the ice front (beyond the crevace Bob Grumbine and I discussed a few years back) that wasn't there on the 5th!
Interesting times eh?
EDIT: Have shot an E-Mail to Mr Grumbine, down at McMurdo, to get his take on things.
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Post by itsthesunstupid on Jan 7, 2010 20:37:55 GMT
Haven't we a swarm of Bergs from the Ross ice shelf losses to the south of Oz at the mo? And when was the last time that happened?
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 7, 2010 21:01:19 GMT
Start an Antarctic thread - this is the Arctic thread! ;D Looks like the Baltic is going to freeze heavy & early this year: Well ahead of last year:
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Post by poitsplace on Jan 7, 2010 21:17:49 GMT
The ice shelves DO NOT significantly hold back the east antarctic ice sheet or any ice sheet. Ice sheets are on land. Ice shelves that CAN break off are ALREADY FLOATING (or are people suggesting they stand up and WALK out into the ocean). If anything, the ice shelves are PULLING the ice sheets because they're sitting out there in the water being impacted by ocean currents, tides, etc.
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Post by hairball on Jan 7, 2010 21:32:53 GMT
Sorry and thanks Kiwi. Is the Baltic counted as Arctic ice? It's not in the Arctic by the NSDIC's definitions.
Wait, that sounded like I was taking the piss. Only part of Hudson bay is counted as being in the Arctic, is the whole thing counted for the Arctic sea-ice numbers we see?
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Post by kiwistonewall on Jan 7, 2010 21:42:37 GMT
The Focus of this thread is the Northern Hemisphere Winter Ice in the Arctic. (My Thread! ;D) The Ice Extent includes the Ice growth outside the Arctic circle. After all, the Arctic region itself always reaches 100%, and there would be no anomaly if we didn't include the entire region. The Antarctic is a different topic - Land mass, Summer, etc. For those who want, start a thread. For me (even tho' I live in the South & the Antarctic is closer) the Antarctic is a source of much nonsense, as there are no "real" people there - only "Scientists"! ;D. Harder to tell lies about the Arctic, as "normal" people live & work & play in the region. (PS I am a scientist, and, therefore, not strictly "normal" )
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Post by hairball on Jan 7, 2010 21:58:45 GMT
Oh, God I'm so slow, thanks for putting up with the likes of me!
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Post by graywolf on Jan 9, 2010 19:25:41 GMT
www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL041434.shtmlI see Dr Barbers paper is available for those who want to see it. As to why Sat.s can't distinguish mush from old perennial; "This case of mistaken identity is physically explained by the factors which contribute to the return to Radarsat-1 from the two surfaces; both ice regimes had similar temperature and salinity profiles in the near-surface volume, both ice types existed with a similar amount of open water between and within the floes, and finally both ice regimes were overlain by similar, recently formed new sea ice in areas of negative freeboard and in open water areas. The fact that these two very different ice regimes could not be differentiated using Radarsat-1 data or in situ C-band scatterometer or microwave radiometer measurements, has significant implications for climate studies and for marine vessel navigation in the Canada Basin." It also seems quite warm up there at the mo; nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2010/010510.htmlSo poor ice thickness, rotten ice where we thought was solid perennial and a cracker of a melt season to come. I'm sooooo glad all is well ooop north.....
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Post by sigurdur on Jan 9, 2010 19:42:37 GMT
Winter in the north is farrrrrrr from over. But.....whilst we are thinking.....seems the temps now verses the 1941-1944 era are very similiar. I bet the ice is very similiar as well?
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Post by hairball on Jan 9, 2010 19:52:26 GMT
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eric
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by eric on Jan 10, 2010 16:48:40 GMT
Jaxa is showing ice almost extending 2/3 or 3/4 of the way from Greenland to Iceland. Any idea if the ice has ever made it possible to walk across (in recent history)?
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