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Post by scpg02 on Jan 8, 2010 6:49:46 GMT
Since the release of the emails I have maintained that the next hook the global elites will hang carbon control on will be ocean acidity. If you watch the news you can see it starting all ready.Coral condemned to extinction by CO2 levels, warns Attenborough
Coral is the canary in the cage as damage can be seen most quickly, veteran naturalist tells Royal SocietyAlok Jha guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 7 July 2009 11.02 BST www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/07/coral-attenborough
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Post by nautonnier on Jan 8, 2010 9:56:51 GMT
It would appear that he is somewhat behind the latest research..
""Marine scientists say they are astonished at the spectacular recovery of certain coral reefs in Australia’s Great Barrier Reef Marine Park from a devastating coral bleaching event in 2006.
That year high sea temperatures caused massive and severe coral bleaching in the Keppel Islands, in the southern part of the GBR. The damaged reefs were quickly smothered by a single species of seaweed – an event that can spell the total loss of the corals.
However, a lucky combination of rare circumstances meant the reefs were able to achieve a spectacular recovery, with abundant corals re-established in a single year, says Dr Guillermo Diaz-Pulido, from the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies (CoECRS) and the Centre for Marine Studies at The University of Queensland.
Dr Diaz-Pulido explains that the rapid recovery is due to an exceptional combination of previously-underestimated ecological mechanisms. "(In other words its not as simple as they thought) www.coralcoe.org.au/news_stories/reefrecovery.html" In a striking finding that raises new questions about carbon dioxide’s (CO2) impact on marine life, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) scientists report that some shell-building creatures—such as crabs, shrimp and lobsters—unexpectedly build more shell when exposed to ocean acidification caused by elevated levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2)." blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/reef_alarmist_bleached_again/It would be nice if people tested their hypotheses before rushing into print. |
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Post by scpg02 on Jan 8, 2010 14:25:59 GMT
I figure saying the oceans are going to turn acid is like saying the ice caps are going to melt because the temp went from minus 35 to minus 34.
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Post by jurinko on Jan 8, 2010 15:03:53 GMT
According to Wikipedia, first corals appeared 542 million years ago and lived happily through ancient times with 6000 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, not speaking about much higher sea temperatures.  How long shall we let them doing idiots of us?  |
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Post by sfbmikey on Jan 8, 2010 15:44:12 GMT
actually, coming from a skeptic, coral problems are one of the best arrows in the AGW quiver.
even in my short life I have seen dramatic coral die offs with my own eyes (I have been visiting Pennekamp state park and the USVI for a couple of decades). I am told by "old timers" (AND actual scientists) that the die offs I have seen are nothing compared to what has taken place since the 1960/70s, in particular the decline of staghorn and elkhorn corals in the keys.
the earths corals have been having some very serious problems for the last 40 years. no-one has shown a particularly good case for a linkage to any one factor, and the problems have been going on a smidge longer than they should to lay at AGW's door, but it is a valid point of concern. (as a result of the calcification studies and the local maximum temperature effect involved in bleaching....)
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Post by dagrump on Jan 8, 2010 16:15:45 GMT
sfbmikey, while you were at Pennekamp you should you should have taken note that there is NO die off there. I've been diving in the Keys since the late 50s.
You should also have dug down about 3 feet anywhere in Florida. The entire state is composed of thousands of square miles of nothing but DEAD CORAL as the bed rock.
Our water temps fluxuate some 30 degrees F seasonaly. I don't particularly buy the "temp is the cause" of the small part of the GBR dying. Suffice it to say, some 12,000 years ago the current coral reefs we have did NOT exist. The seas were some 150 M (nearly 400 feet) lower.
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Post by poitsplace on Jan 8, 2010 19:48:56 GMT
Overfishing, farm runoff and various other problems are probably FAR more important in the life and death of coral than temperature/CO2
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utahpaw
New Member
The only thing that keeps us from learning is what we already know.
Posts: 15 
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Post by utahpaw on Jan 8, 2010 22:05:19 GMT
For assessment of the absurd, we can use some simplistic approximations to make a counter-point:
Let's presume we get enough atmospheric CO2 to raise the Earth's temperature (atmosphere, land and ocean) by 5C... which some claim will happen in this century.
Why will this make the oceans hugely acidic? The solubility of carbon dioxide in water is 0.3% at 3C, and only 0.25% at 8C. Raising the ocean's temperature 5C would cause 6E+12 tons of carbon dioxide to effervesce (Happy New Year) into the atmosphere, raising the atmospheric carbon dioxide by 1200 PPM (without consideration of the anthropogenic factor), would it not?
And, if so, a) the acidity of the ocean would be measurably less, and b) since carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would then be about 385 plus 300 (from us) plus 1200 from the ocean, and it is such a potent greenhouse gas, Earth will become Venus... Oh, wait, that is where we were during the Jurassic (jurinko's post above), and the planet recovered.
What ARE we to believe?
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Post by sigurdur on Jan 8, 2010 22:26:47 GMT
For assessment of the absurd, we can use some simplistic approximations to make a counter-point: Let's presume we get enough atmospheric CO2 to raise the Earth's temperature (atmosphere, land and ocean) by 5C... which some claim will happen in this century. Why will this make the oceans hugely acidic? The solubility of carbon dioxide in water is 0.3% at 3C, and only 0.25% at 8C. Raising the ocean's temperature 5C would cause 6E+12 tons of carbon dioxide to effervesce (Happy New Year) into the atmosphere, raising the atmospheric carbon dioxide by 1200 PPM (without consideration of the anthropogenic factor), would it not? And, if so, a) the acidity of the ocean would be measurably less, and b) since carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would then be about 385 plus 300 (from us) plus 1200 from the ocean, and it is such a potent greenhouse gas, Earth will become Venus... Oh, wait, that is where we were during the Jurassic (jurinko's post above), and the planet recovered. What ARE we to believe? Ok.......enough gogglygoop. What are we to believe? 1. We KNOW that increasing co2 in the atmosphere results in very little additional warming. Saturation has about occurred. What was the question again? |
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Post by icefisher on Jan 8, 2010 23:07:26 GMT
Since the ice is growing in the Arctic and its damn hard to smother polar bear's with CO2 those avenues were getting dicey so they needed something new.
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Post by Ratty on Jan 8, 2010 23:32:57 GMT
No doubt, reference to this publication from Dr Craig Idso will have been posted here before .... www.co2science.org/education/reports/corals/coralreefs.pdf" The persistence of coral reefs through geologic time – when temperatures were as much as 10-15°C warmer than at present, and atmospheric CO2 concentrations were 2 to 7 times higher than they are currently – provides substantive evidence that these marine entities can successfully adapt to a dramatically changing global environment" |
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Post by sigurdur on Jan 8, 2010 23:44:03 GMT
No doubt, reference to this publication from Dr Craig Idso will have been posted here before .... www.co2science.org/education/reports/corals/coralreefs.pdf" The persistence of coral reefs through geologic time – when temperatures were as much as 10-15°C warmer than at present, and atmospheric CO2 concentrations were 2 to 7 times higher than they are currently – provides substantive evidence that these marine entities can successfully adapt to a dramatically changing global environment" Hey Ratty: I hear from a friend down under that you folks are baking. How many temp records are actually rising? |
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Post by scpg02 on Jan 8, 2010 23:56:44 GMT
Overfishing, farm runoff and various other problems are probably FAR more important in the life and death of coral than temperature/CO2 I think agricultural run off is a problem everywhere. It does need to be addressed. Without government intervention of course. |
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Post by scpg02 on Jan 9, 2010 0:06:43 GMT
No doubt, reference to this publication from Dr Craig Idso will have been posted here before .... www.co2science.org/education/reports/corals/coralreefs.pdf" The persistence of coral reefs through geologic time – when temperatures were as much as 10-15°C warmer than at present, and atmospheric CO2 concentrations were 2 to 7 times higher than they are currently – provides substantive evidence that these marine entities can successfully adapt to a dramatically changing global environment" Thanks for the useful link! |
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Post by Ratty on Jan 9, 2010 0:26:37 GMT
[Snip] Hey Ratty: I hear from a friend down under that you folks are baking. How many temp records are actually rising? Sig, I'm a retired <done_a_bit_of_everything> guy, have no scientific background, just an interested observer. I'm not sure you can trust the stats any more but you could have a look at temperature anomolies on the BOM site: www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/temp_maps.cgi?variable=maxanom&area=nat&period=12month&time=latestWhat I can say is that August to December in my area (SE QLD) was stinking hot a lot of the time. This month still above the averages although we have had a lot of cloudy weather and the State has had a LOT of rain: www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/silo/rain_maps.cgi?map=contours&variable=totals&area=qld&period=1month®ion=qld&time=latestCurrently, the South of the continent is experiencing near heat wave conditions with 41C, 43C and 43C predicted for Adelaide (29.1C Avg) and 34C, 33C, 41C for Melbourne (25.9C Avg) over the next few days. It's hot and humid here just North of Brisbane as the sun comes out and sucks up the ground moisture following the rain with predictions of 2-3C above January average for most of the next week. It's possible we're quite a bit warmer than the NH .....  |
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