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Post by Pooh on Jan 28, 2009 8:18:49 GMT
This just published in ScienceDaily: Climate Change Largely Irreversible For Next 1,000 Years, NOAA ReportsScienceDaily (Jan. 28, 2009) — A new scientific study led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the climate change caused by future increases of carbon dioxide: to a large extent, there’s no going back. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127163403.htm I apologize to ebranish. I thought ebranish to be the publisher of Science Daily. On re-reading the first post, the comment below should have been addressed to Dan Hogan.I suggest your efforts might be helped by critical reading and personal, independent research to verify claims made in "peer reviewed" research. For myself, I am cautious about any paper that a) mentions computer adjustments or in-filling the raw data, b) ignores alternative drivers and c) includes Mann among its authors. I also suggest trying to emulate Climate Debate Daily, climatedebatedaily.com/, which attempts to post AGW pros and cons side by side. This positioning is often frustrated by AGW supporters publishing an avalanche of stories, since the skeptics must take a day or so to review the stories and respond. It does not help that detail and support for agw claims is missing, not accessible, or hidden behind legal or "pay-to-play" barriers.
Here are a few gleanings on another issue ("Antarctic Warming"): Marohasy, Jennifer. “Modellers Remove Evidence of Cooling and Editor Removes Comment by Climate Sceptic.” jennifermarohasy.com. jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/01/modellers-remove-evidence-of-cooling-and-editor-removes-comment-by-climate-sceptic/. McIntyre, Steve. “Antarctic RegEM.” Blog. Climate Audit, January 21, 2009. www.climateaudit.org/?p=4914. ---. “Steig's Silence.” Climate Audit , January 24, 2009. www.climateaudit.org/?p=4945. Morano, Marc. “Scientists, Data Challenge New Antarctic ‘Warming’ Study .” Government. U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page, January 21, 2009. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=fc7db6ad-802a-23ad-43d1-2651eb2297d6&IsPrint=True. Pielke Sr., Roger. “Follow Up On Today’s AP Article By Seth Bornenstein Entitled “Study: Antarctica Joins Rest Of Globe In Warming”.” Blog. Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group News, January 21, 2009. climatesci.org/2009/01/21/follow-up-on-todays-ap-article-by-seth-bornenstein-entitled-study-antarctica-joins-rest-of-globe-in-warming/. “Satellites Confirm Half-Century of West Antarctic Warming.” Scientific. NASA GISS: Research News: , January 21, 2009. www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20090121/. Steig, Eric J., and Michael E. Mann. “State of Antarctica: red or blue?.” RealClimate. www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/01/state-of-antarctica-red-or-blue/. Steig, Eric J., David P. Schneider, Scott D. Rutherford, Michael E. Mann, Josefino C. Comiso, and Drew T. Shindell. “ Warming of the Antarctic ice-sheet surface since the 1957 International Geophysical Year.” Nature 457, no. 7228 (January 22, 2008): 459-462. doi:10.1038/nature07669. dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature07669. ---. “ Warming of the Antarctic ice-sheet surface since the 1957 International Geophysical Year (Complete).” Nature 457 (January 22, 2009): 459 - 462. doi:10.1038. thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/steigetalnature09.pdf. Watts, Anthony. “ Antarctica Warming? An Evolution of Viewpoint.” Blog Summaries. ICECAP, January 22, 2009. icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/antarctica_warming_an_evolution_of_viewpoint1/.
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Post by Pooh on Jan 27, 2009 17:47:07 GMT
...I was discussing at work today with several folks as many of us ice fish and snowmobile.... Time to rig the old iceboats? If the ice is fairly smooth, they could reach 50+ mph. Exciting and newsworthy with spectacular photos/videos. Headline: "First iceboat race since 19?? sponsored by the IPCC" ;D
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Post by Pooh on Jan 26, 2009 18:36:56 GMT
The reference by beatk is a good one. Below is a "Zotero"-generated bibliography of other items posted by Mike Morano from Inhofe's office. Sorry they are not yet annotated or even well-selected or organized.
“.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :..” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=37ae6e96-802a-23ad-4c8a-edf6d8150789. “.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :..” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=77efca98-802a-23ad-4aa3-8511828b7ef6. “.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :..” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2674e64f-802a-23ad-490b-bd9faf4dcdb7. “ICECAP.” icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/un_blowback_more_than_650_international_scientists_dissent_over_man_made_gl/. Morano, Marc. “ Democrats Call Largest Tax Increase -- A ‘Big Tax Cut!’ .” Government. U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page, June 3, 2008. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=509dea32-802a-23ad-42ef-729d220328a8&IsPrint=True. ---. “Fact Check on Boxer's Climate Tax Bill Claims.” U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page : epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=77efca98-802a-23ad-4aa3-8511828b7ef6. ---. “'Global Warming Will Stop', New Peer-Reviewed Study Says.” U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page, April 30, 2008. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=A17DEFA8-802A-23AD-4912-8AB7138A7C3F&IsPrint=True. ---. “Gore’s (Really) Inconvenient Timing – ‘Consensus’ On Man-Made Global Warming Collapses in 2008.” Blog. U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page , July 18, 2008. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=37ae6e96-802a-23ad-4c8a-edf6d8150789. ---. “Inhofe Opening Statement: An Update on the Science of Global Warming and its Implications.” U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=4b486f26-802a-23ad-4b32-f7ef47ce6468&IsPrint=true. ---. “More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims.” U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2674e64f-802a-23ad-490b-bd9faf4dcdb7. ---. “New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears.” U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page, August 20, 2007. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=84E9E44A-802A-23AD-493A-B35D0842FED8&IsPrint=True. ---. “Scientists, Data Challenge New Antarctic ‘Warming’ Study .” Government. U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page, January 21, 2009. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=fc7db6ad-802a-23ad-43d1-2651eb2297d6&IsPrint=True. ---. “UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims.” ICECAP, December 15, 2008. icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/un_blowback_more_than_650_international_scientists_dissent_over_man_made_gl/. Morano, Mark. “Climate Bill ‘A Gargantuan Boondoggle’ – ‘Hurricane’ Boxer – ‘Super Bowl for Lobbyists’ – Round Up.” Inhofe EPA Press Blog, U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page. epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=55b8a39f-802a-23ad-4b9f-ec424cc93425&Issue_id=&IsPrint=True. (The following may duplicate some items above.)“Referencing:.” “This post includes annotated links to contrary research and opinion..” “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=84E9E44A-802A-23AD-493A-B35D0842FED8&IsPrint=True. “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=A17DEFA8-802A-23AD-4912-8AB7138A7C3F&IsPrint=True. “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=509dea32-802a-23ad-42ef-729d220328a8&IsPrint=True. “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=fc7db6ad-802a-23ad-43d1-2651eb2297d6&IsPrint=True. “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=55b8a39f-802a-23ad-4b9f-ec424cc93425&Issue_id=&IsPrint=True. “U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page.” epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=4b486f26-802a-23ad-4b32-f7ef47ce6468&IsPrint=true.
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Post by Pooh on Jan 16, 2009 6:52:14 GMT
Of course, this is a thing of the past ;D (Niagara - early 1900's) The illustration is not, by chance, 1912 or 1913? Lake Ontario nearly froze over in the mid-1970's as I recall . Without lake effect warming, the south shore became extra cold. If that happens, GISS will be busy adjusting the record. ;D Thanks, Kiwi. Must have been 1977.
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Post by Pooh on Dec 20, 2008 8:06:30 GMT
Re: Storing collected energy in (liquid) sodium, and assuming that the intent is to convert thermal energy to electricity in a steam turbine generator. Best not to let the liquid sodium leak. In air, it burns. In contact with water, the same, albeit more vigorously. A solution to contain leaks is being worked on: www.igcar.ernet.in/benchmark/Engg/16-engg.pdfI think I recall that one of the barriers to fast breeder reactors is leakage of sodium, and that the result is we are not making more nuclear fuel than we use. (And, yes, another barrier is that the fuel created is plutonium which scares the wits out of some factions. However, when used as fuel, the plutonium ceases to be plutonium.) For more entertainment, see: www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=liquid+sodium+%22fast+breeder+reactor%22+seal&as_q=leak&btnG=Search%C2%A0within%C2%A0results
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Ignore
Dec 12, 2008 0:02:28 GMT
Post by Pooh on Dec 12, 2008 0:02:28 GMT
w7psk: If your concern is within the "Global Warming and Weather Discussion", consider removing the "Freedom of Speech" button from your keyboard. If it has to do with that recent ignoble rant aimed at our Ham radio hosts (which I can not find just now), then the "Smite" button might be useful. Having mentioned it, I suppose I shall now collect a lot of "smites".
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Post by Pooh on Nov 7, 2008 23:44:00 GMT
Here Is Common Sense Wrapped In A Good Read:Prof. Ross McKitrick: "In September 2007 I was contacted by a politician outside of Canada who was preparing for cabinet-level decisions on global warming policy. I was asked to identify half a dozen of the main assumptions about global warming that, if wrong, would invalidate the usual conclusions. Of course the topic is so big I could easily have written a book in response. A tidied-up version of my actual reply is here. I do not know what effect, if any, it had on the individual's views." * McKitrick, Ross R (2007) Letter to a Policymaker About Global Warming. September 2007." ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/Letter.to.policymaker.pdfAs A Bonus, it contains a (IMO) devastating autopsy of IPCC political shenanigans in producing the SPM (Summary for Policy Makers) documents and the unscientific suppression of peer-reviewed uncertainties and alternative causes. It also contains a suggestion for a fee or tax (for those who simply must have one) that has no net effect on any industry or economy, does not benefit any government or advocacy group and is an incentive for reducing the "target de jour". Here is where the Letter was found; there is much else: the more the merrier! ;D ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/#newThanks to ICECAP for the lead!
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 6:32:01 GMT
Ref: The Politics of “AGW” « Reply #71 Yesterday at 8:41pm »Tax and Bankrupt: Democrat Candidate's Concern for the Coal Miner Update on #71: Obama Radio Interview Confirmed: Audio was heard November 3, 2008 around 1:02 am on Hannity & Colmes repeat on Fox News. I heard Obama's voice say what was reported. Astonishing! (Link found.) Found at: www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/opinionshop/detail?&entry_id=23562 48:33 min, 29.13 mb Statement is located at 25:10 minutes into interview. Sequestration a precondition to coal fired plants. MIT study indicates we don't know the best way to do this; recommends start with plants using different subsidized approaches to find out best way to sequester. After capture, add transport and storage, each having costs and unresolved problems. “‘So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted."Note: Democrat candidate also addresses nuclear power, with "safe" and "safe storage" as prerequisites. Senate Majority Leader Reid claims Yucca Mountain storage not "safe".
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 3:00:39 GMT
Carbon Taxes, "AGW" and Socialist Ideology: On The MarchQ. What is the relationship between Carbon Taxes and fixing the Financial Crisis? A. They are both in the same Bill. Get ready, get set, Go!
Author: Matthew Vadum Quotes: "If you look at page 180 of the 451-page monster bailout bill that easily passed the Senate yesterday, you will see that it includes at Section 116 language about the tax treatment of “industrial source carbon dioxide.” It also provides, at Section 117, for a “carbon audit of the tax code.” What could a provision about the tax treatment of “industrial source carbon dioxide” and another provision about doing a “carbon audit” of the tax code possibly have to do with restoring confidence in Wall Street’s troubled credit markets?" Website Title Capital Research Center Date October 2, 2008 URL www.capitalresearch.org/blog/?p=950 accessed Saturday, October 04, 2008 3:56:06 AM Notes:o IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES—110th Cong., 2d Sess. H. R. 1424 1 DIVISION A—EMERGENCY 2 ECONOMIC STABILIZATION 3 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE AND TABLE OF CONTENTS. 4 (a) SHORT TITLE.—This division may be cited as the 5 ‘ ‘Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008’’. Page 180, Sections 116 and 117 O:\AYO\AYO08C32.xml S.L.C. 1 SEC. 116. CERTAIN INCOME AND GAINS RELATING TO IN- 2 DUSTRIAL SOURCE CARBON DIOXIDE TREAT- 3 ED AS QUALIFYING INCOME FOR PUBLICLY 4 TRADED PARTNERSHIPS. 5 (a) IN GENERAL.—Subparagraph (E) of section 6 7704(d)(1) (defining qualifying income) is amended by in 7 serting ‘‘ or industrial source carbon dioxide’’ after ‘‘tim- 8 ber)’’. 9 (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendment made by 10 this section shall take effect on the date of the enactment 11 of this Act, in taxable years ending after such date. 12 SEC. 117. CARBON AUDIT OF THE TAX CODE. 13 (a) STUDY.—The Secretary of the Treasury shall 14 enter into an agreement with the National Academy of 15 Sciences to undertake a comprehensive review of the Inter- 16 nal Revenue Code of 1986 to identify the types of and 17 specific tax provisions that have the largest effects on car- 18 bon and other greenhouse gas emissions and to estimate 19 the magnitude of those effects. 20 (b) REPORT.—Not later than 2 years after the date 21 of enactment of this Act, the National Academy of 22 Sciences shall submit to Congress a report containing the 23 results of study authorized under this section. 24 (c) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.—There is 25 authorized to be appropriated to carry out this section 26 $1,500,000 for the period of fiscal years 2009 and 2010.
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 2:42:13 GMT
Carbon Taxes, "AGW" and Socialist Ideology: The Means To Their EndToward An Economic Justice AgendaType: Web Page Author: DSA USA (Democratic Socialists of America) Quotations, page 11. "The challenge of climate change is an economic, scientific, and labor issue much more than a traditional environmental issue. "Therefore, we advocate that the labor movement take the lead in pushing Congress to enact a massive program of public investment in energy efficiency and renewable energy, as proposed by the Apollo Alliance, which sees clean energy and more jobs as reinforcing each other. Fresh water and biodiversity are also renewable but finite resources being exploited unsustainably. The privatization of water, another essential public good, is a critical issue in much of the world and needs to be resisted and reversed. "In short, we need a global Marshall Plan for sustainable development to reverse the race to the bottom in wages, taxation, health, and environmental regulation. It can be funded by a global punitive “Tobin tax” on speculative transfers of funds and currency in and out of the financial and stock markets of developing nations." Website Title: Democratic Left Website Type: Political www.dsausa.org/pdf/eja_may2008.pdf accessed: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:07:32 PM
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 1:48:15 GMT
Carbon Taxes, "AGW" and Socialist Ideology: Senator Bernie SandersU.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders Addresses DSA National Convention. (DSA: Democratic Socialists of America) Author: Bernie Sanders Quoting pages 5-8: “I want to talk about another issue of huge consequence, and that is the issue of global warming. I am on both the Senate Environmental Committee and the Senate Energy Committee, which are the two committees dealing with this issue. What the scientists now tell us is that they underestimated the problem and that in fact global warming is moving faster and more severely than they had anticipated. That’s the bad news. The good news is that we know how to address this issue, and if we are smart about it, not only can we reverse global warming by moving toward energy efficiency, by getting cars that give us decent mileage per gallon, by building up the rail system, by moving to sustainable energies; if we do all of those things, you know what we do? Not only do we save the planet, we can create millions of good-paying jobs. “Just yesterday, I talked to the head of the largest electric company in America, Pacific Gas and Electric out in California. They’re going to be building a 535 megawatt solar powered light plant, which will provide electricity to 400,000 homes, and that is just the beginning. There are wind turbines out there that for rural America could provide almost 50 percent of the electricity that a home needs. Now, imagine if we were producing millions of these, and the kinds of jobs that we are creating. Imagine if we rebuilt our rail system so that it was the equivalent of Europe’s or Japan’s instead of what it is right now. More and more jobs. So we’re going to focus on global warming; we’re going to save the planet; we’re going to create jobs in the process.” Website Title: DemocraticLeft - Democratic Socialists of America Website Type: Newsletter Date: Winter 2007 dsausa.org/dl/Winter_2008.pdf accessed Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:22:58 PM Curiouser and curiouser. Wonder who he is talking about? - Rail: Population density is the key to economically viable rail. According to data in the CIA World Factbook, the European Union has a population that is 44% of the U.S., GDP per capita that is 71.4% of the U.S., Population Density that is 367% of the U.S. He's probably thinking about the BoWash corridor, and perhaps San Francisco - Los Angeles. Aside from the great interior cities, the rest of us can subsidize them.
- Solar Power: Nice, if you can juice it up with a subsidy. Unfortunately, power is available only when the sun is up. That means "Spinning Reserves", since electricity must be generated at the instant demanded.
- WindTurbines: Available with subsidies and lots of lawyers for eminent domain cases. A slalom challenge for light aircraft. Also, need to deep-six P.E.T.A.; bad news for migrating birds and bats. The vanes don't even have to hit bats. The change in air pressure bursts their little lungs. Good news for mosquitoes. Oh, yes: "Spinning Reserves" will be needed.
So, Sanders is talking about you and me subsidizing the metros or being herded into the metros as great regions of the U.S. are re-tasked to Solar and Wind Turbine farms. Pity that make-work has no effect on the climate.
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 1:00:32 GMT
Carbon Taxes, "AGW" and Socialist Ideology: Rep. Maxine Waters Type: Web Page Author: Kaslin Abstract: "This liberal will be all about socializing, uh, uh . . . would be about . . . basically taking over and the government running all of your companies," Rep. Maxine Waters told oil executives on May 22 during yet another show-trial congressional hearing. Website: Free Republic Date: May 29, 2008 www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2023272/posts accessed Saturday, May 31, 2008 2:30:46 PM
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Post by Pooh on Nov 3, 2008 0:41:52 GMT
Tax and Bankrupt: Democrat Candidate's Concern for the Coal Miner Update: Obama Radio Interview Confirmed: Audio was heard November 3, 2008 around 1:02 am on Hannity & Colmes repeat on Fox News. I heard Obama's voice say what was reported. Astonishing! I will try to find link tomorrow on www.foxnews.com/hannityandcolmes/index.html. Hidden Audio: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal IndustryAuthor: P.J. Gladnick [Oops! My apologies to trbixler, he has priority and all credit for finding it! Good for you!] Unfortunately, the link to the video crashed my PC three times, and it is not the space in the word "indust ry". This story is so important that I quote it below. Quoted: “Imagine if John McCain had whispered somewhere that he was willing to bankrupt a major industry? Would this declaration not immediately be front page news? Well, Barack Obama actually flat out told the San Francisco Chronicle (SF Gate) that he was willing to see the coal industry go bankrupt in a January 17, 2008 interview. The result? Nothing. This audio interview [1] has been hidden from the public...until now. Here is the transcript of Obama's statement about bankrupting the coal industry (emphasis mine): “‘ Let me sort of describe my overall policy. “‘What I've said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. “‘I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year. “‘ So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.“‘That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches. “’The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a ( sic) ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.'“NewsBusters' Tom Blumer has found out that the San Francisco Chronicle story published on January 18 based upon this January 17 interview did not include any mention of Obama's willingness to bankrupt the coal industry which you can hear on the audio. You can read the story here (link [2]) when you scroll down to the "In His Own Words" section. Way to cover up for The One, SF Chronicle! “ Links:[1] This one crashed Firefox on my PC: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ It might run on IE, but the last Flash update crashed me, too. [2] bizzyblog.com/ObamaSFchronInterview011708.html (Unfortunately, this text no longer has the bankruptcy statement, and I can not run the video.) Website Title: NewsBusters Date: November 2, 2008 URL: newsbusters.org/node/25829/print accessed: Sunday, November 02, 2008
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Post by Pooh on Nov 2, 2008 23:36:08 GMT
Owch. Hey, I don't feel I'm an elitist here, and nothing I've said is meant to suggest that all electric is right for every application. My philosophy has always been that a mix of everything is probably preferable with a very heavy reliance on solar and electricity. All-electric vehicles are WAY more efficient than gasoline powered vehicles in general, and specifically in urban settings; and reducing concentrated emissions from within city borders is a great thing to do along with stopping the bleeding of our economy for oil imports. Ron. Please accept my sincere and abject apologies for the implication of my post. I, too, favor a mix of alternatives, but it will take time to make them viable. From the rest of your post, I see that you are a kindred spirit with a yen for adventure. (Ours was crossing Lake Ontario on a pint of gas.) I have amended my post, but leave my embarrassment for all to see.
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Post by Pooh on Nov 2, 2008 22:36:39 GMT
What do you have against electricity? I thought this forum was filled with open minded folks? An electric car, so "heavy and inefficient," will move you about 300 miles for about 60 kWh. Here, where electricity rates are the highest in the US ($0.16/kWh), that would cost about $9.60. The average for the country is about $.10 or $0.11 cents, so the cost would be $6 to $7. A 30MPG car will cost you 10 gallons of gasoline; a 50 MPG car would take 6 gallons. At $2.00 per gallon that's $12 to $20, at $3.00 that's $18 to $30. At $4, it's $24 to $40. The cars WILL be charged overnight, but the point you are missing or ignoring is that the peak for electricity demand by far is during the day when industry is open and early evening when people arrive to home. Ron, I have nothing against electricity or electric cars in New England. Almost anywhere in New England is within a range of 300 miles. Or within the 140-mile range of a tank of Picken's Natural Gas (the fuel, not the ad.)
I do object to New England elites telling everyone else what they may or may not do. Let me suggest you drive across Colorado, the Dakotas, Kansas or Texas in this 300-mile wonder. Then return here with the total cost (your choice of options): - A second car
- An overnight hotel stay (twice, there and back again)
- A nice round-trip airplane ride
- A rental car
Out here in fly-over country, we may choose to travel 600 miles in a day. It takes about 12 hours.
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