UK Riots question

[slh1234]

I'd like to hear from Steve or others actually in the UK right now what the riots situation really is.

I am just generally skeptical of news accounts I read and think they are usually sensationalized. Right now, the news stories I'm reading make it sound like entire neighborhoods are burned, and people are generally in fear in most of the cities.

What's your perspective on what's going on? it's extent? and effect on people?

[curiousgeorge]

From a friend in the London area:

Sunday night was nowhere near me personally but Brixton where my younger daughter works was hit and a local Nandos about 75 yards from her work was torched.
We thought it might be an isolated thing.... but they yesterday happened.

My wife was coming out with me on her first home visit day since her mugging in January. We were in an area called New Cross when we heard that there was rioting in Lewisham directly to the East of us and Peckham directly to the West. We made the decision to abandon the rest of the day and head for home, heading north first to avoid Lewisham and got home safely.
The news was terrible. Peckham were my daughter also works ( and I do a day about ever 2 weeks) was hit and a shop just 4 doors from the practice where we both work was torched. The fire then spread to the next building only 3 doors away. The TV and internet was showing the same footage again and again and although we knew that the police had done a baton charge to get fire crew down there we didn't know if the practice survived.
Video showed rioters on the flat roof of a neighboring building trying to gain entry and clearly showed them crossing my friends roof as well.

The only reassurance they had was that their alarm system hadn't triggered as the alarm company would have notified them.
The owners only know today that the building is still standing but have not been able to get in to find out if the loss of the burned out shop has caused structural damage to the whole parade of shops which are all linked together. The police turned my friend away this morning as they have cordoned off the whole road.

I had hear last night that Catford, where we used to live had also been hit but it was not until my son showed me a photo a friend had posted on Facebook, that I found out that another friend's practice had had its window smashed and the practice looted.
I heard this evening that the owner spent the whole day there today clearing up the mess and plans to re-open tomorrow.

My own practice was operating fine today with full attendance at the morning clinic but early in the afternoon the word went around that rioters were on there way and everyone on the parade locked up, lowered our shutters and left.
We strongly felt that it was probably a false alarm started by someone who would think it funny to close a whole parade with a few words of rumor but we could not afford to be the only place open if the rioters did turn up, so we really had no choice.

We gathered up everything of value we quickly could and headed for my home where we phoned the remaining patients of the day to explain the closure.

Tomorrow was supposed to be my day off for the week and I had intended to get on with the workshop doors (at last). On non clinic days we often staff the practice with just one person but I don't feel I can have her there on her own tomorrow so I'm going in.

I have seen no verifiable reports of trouble near the practice tonight so I hope I have a practice to go into tomorrow!

[fred]

The start of the trouble was the shooting of an eledged drug dealer by the police while being arrested. The was a peaceful march. This then developed into a riot situation by a lot of younger people.
Then further, what appear to opportunist, situations started up around other towns and cities not connected with the first riot.
It seems that a lot of youngsters, and some oldies, took advantage of the pressure that the police were in and started looting shops for booze, electrical goods and clothes. In this mayhem various buildings were set on fire, mostly shops.
There has been a big uprising of ordinary people who got together to clean up the mess. This was organised by twitter because ordinary do not want all the trouble. There is political talk about government cuts, racism, police abuse and more that is causing the young to riot, but this does not excuse this sort of behavior.
Most of the trouble seems to be opportunistic. More police are on the streets tonight and are going to be a bit more assertive.
This problem is very unknown to us over here so we tend to tread quietly but then get caught in the backlash.

Hope this helps.

[magellan]

It sounds like a case of the entitlement mentality that is gripping the West. Politicians have been making pie-in-the-sky promises to citizens for decades; now there is the 'dependent class'. Remove those latched onto the government teet and they think they are entitled to take from others.

What we are seeing is nothing. Wait and see what happens in the coming months.

[curiousgeorge]

Aug 11, 2011 1:52:30 GMT magellan said:

What we are seeing is nothing. Wait and see what happens in the coming months.

I think that is what most will have to do - wait and see. The rioting in the UK has apparently calmed for now. But I don't think anyone really expects that the trouble is over. Whatever the proposed 'solution' turns out to be, it will likely not be a solution at all.

[sigurdur]

I think in the West.....at least the USA...that our "bunker" mentality will prevail.

We know we have problems....it seems we are at the point that the finger pointing is not working anymore. People are tired of the AGW scare, the threat of work stoppage scare etc. They are in it for the long haul. The solution will be presented in the near future. I am very confident of this, in fact, I am working on it now and expect to have my thoughts brought to the house/senate floor within a month.
The advantage of living in a rural state is that I can pick up a phone and call someone personally.......who has as much power as Sen Reid...etc. And I have met/know the fellow on the other end of the line. STupid is not working.....blame is not working.
Whenever our esteemed President opens his mouth, the stock market drops more. The folks who work...who produce....have had it. STop the stupid...do what you have to do....and get on with life.

[magellan]

There are already the "flash mobs" in various cities around the country. Man I'm glad we live in the country, but even that is changing. My neighbor's property has been vandalized twice in the past two weeks. Seems like childish games but the first time they put in unknown amounts of dish soap in their just finished pool. The second time they cut their phone lines and keyed their cars. Down the road the same thing plus their cars were disabled.

We have 7 dogs roaming the yard and in pens so don't worry as much, but next week I'm installing security cams on the property as for some thieves and vandals even barking dogs won't stop them.

Sigurdur is right too. People are getting sick of the whole Greenie enviro socialist thing. Obama has created such an anti-business atmosphere that companies will not hire anyone regardless for fear of what's coming down the road as long as he and the bureaucratic monster he's created still has influence. His policies are going to drive what's left of the economy into the ground. And just because cap-and-trade didn't see the light of day, Obama is using the EPA to come to the same end. Obama did say he would make energy costs sky rocket. People thought they were getting "change", but I don't think this was the type of "change" they thought was coming.

The guy (Obama) has absolutely no business sense at all. Nobody in his cabinet has one day of business experience either.

Gold closed at $1795 today. That is not good folks, and that is coming from someone who owns a sizable amount of it. What is ironic? The current financial meltdown was predicted two years ago with much finer details late last year.

Sigurdur, I will recommend watching this video. Take it for what you think it's worth, but after watching it, consider what is going on right NOW. I think this is from last year and there may be an updated version from earlier this year. For those Googling Porter Stansberry and reporting he is a scam, well, take a look around you, does it look like the world financial system, let alone the U.S., is about to go into a tailspin? I've read the blogs and am quite familiar with those ridiculing his predictions. Two years ago I may have agreed, but reality is rearing its ugly head.
is.gd/hDMiEr

Edit: After watching the section on the dollar being the world's reserve currency and China's threat to dump the dollar, READ this:
online.wsj.com/article/SB123780272456212885.html
This is very serious, and don't be deceived; what happened with the dollar downgrade and the subsequent world markets nosediving is not a mere coincidence. As the U.S. goes, so goes the world.


P.S. Someone mentioned steve. I wonder if he's caught in the middle of this mess over there. I hope he's ok.

[slh1234]

Thank you for passing that on CuriousGeorge.

Fred, the mood sounds pretty much like what I'm hearing on the news, and the opportunism seems to be right in line with what I was thinking as well.

Can you give us any idea of scope? Are we talking about a couple of small neighborhoods? Half the town? places that are normally seen as prone to trouble? Places that are generally considered peaceful? Any details like that. That's a big part of what I miss in news stories: They always make it sound like it's the whole city even if it is limited to a small district.

[curiousgeorge]

40 or 50 years ago, riots were usually able to be contained in a relatively small area, because the mob mentality didn't reach beyond the distance of a couple of megaphones. Today that mob mentality is enabled by instant global communications in both video and audio. The megaphone spans the globe in full HD.

Good luck getting a handle on it.

[curiousgeorge]

From SkyNews: news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16047915 .

"PM: Rioters Face Eviction From Council Homes ".

Council homes are essentially public housing in US terms. What we would call "Projects". So this threat by the UK PM would put already pissed off people out on the street, making them homeless and giving them even more reason to riot or turn to hard core crime. That's about the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

[hairball]

curiousgeorge,

They won't be homeless, they'll be entitled to housing somewhere else.

[curiousgeorge]

Ok. So they'd just be pushing the problem off on somebody else then?

[hairball]

Precisely.

[fred]

Aug 11, 2011 6:29:08 GMT slh1234 said:

Thank you for passing that on CuriousGeorge.

Fred, the mood sounds pretty much like what I'm hearing on the news, and the opportunism seems to be right in line with what I was thinking as well.

Can you give us any idea of scope? Are we talking about a couple of small neighborhoods? Half the town? places that are normally seen as prone to trouble? Places that are generally considered peaceful? Any details like that. That's a big part of what I miss in news stories: They always make it sound like it's the whole city even if it is limited to a small district.[/quote

It has quietened down now as the police have been out in much greater numbers. They were restrained at first as it was presumed to be just a few people causing a bit of a ruckus. Then it all got out of hand and larger groups of mainly youngsters started looting, some arson, setting cars on fire and throwing petrol bombs etc.

There has been talk about some sort of organisation via facebook, twitter and blackbeery phones to get gangs to loot shops. They seem to pick the best shops though.

The trouble has only been in very small areas of various towns and cities. Most, but not all of the areas are deemed poor. These are mostly occupied by people in council (state owned) housing estates, with most people on state benefits.

The trouble is that they have caused a huge amount of local damage and a few people have lost all there property and belongings.


Steve lives in Devon which is 2 - 300 miles from any trouble.