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Post by douglavers on Oct 7, 2013 5:26:56 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Oct 7, 2013 7:53:54 GMT
At the risk of getting Andrew all excited again - mainly this is the effect of the water freezing and releasing latent heat so the temperature remains relatively static while there is a lot of ice being formed then drops when the rate of formation slows. The extra drop then causes more ice to form and the temperature stabilizes while that happens and so on. There will also be affects from the weather that will lead to non linear temperature change and from the way the reported values from the multiple observation sites are turned into a single reported value.
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Post by cuttydyer on Oct 7, 2013 8:12:26 GMT
Steven Goddard writes: Arctic Sea Ice Controlled By Winter Winds"One of the biggest lies of the global warming scam is that Arctic sea ice has declined because warming Arctic temperatures are melting it.
This is utter nonsense. Summers in the Arctic have been getting cooler. The warming which occurred from the mid-1970s until a few years ago occurred during the winter, and the vast majority of the ice loss also occurred during the winter.
The NSIDC graphic below shows how almost all of the five+ year old ice was pushed out into the North Atlantic during the winters from 1988 to 1996. This coincided with the most positive ENSO period on record.The disaster for alarmists is that the winds have reversed and are pushing the ice towards the Pacific side, which is driving the massive recovery in the amount of Arctic sea ice – up 60% from last summer.
Unless something changes with the winds, Arctic sea ice will continue to grow during the next few years."Link: stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/arctic-sea-ice-controlled-by-winter-winds/
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Post by Andrew on Oct 7, 2013 8:31:24 GMT
At the risk of getting Andrew all excited again - mainly this is the effect of the water freezing and releasing latent heat so the temperature remains relatively static while there is a lot of ice being formed then drops when the rate of formation slows. The extra drop then causes more ice to form and the temperature stabilizes while that happens and so on. There will also be affects from the weather that will lead to non linear temperature change and from the way the reported values from the multiple observation sites are turned into a single reported value. For the record, you were the one getting amazed and talking about binary stars and wondering why people want to ban you when quite obviously you had no idea what you were talking about. And now according to you, only when ice formation slows down, can the air that is cooling the ice can get colder, otherwise when the ice is forming rapidly the air that is cooling the ice is warmer!
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Post by icefisher on Oct 7, 2013 14:52:12 GMT
For the record, you were the one getting amazed and talking about binary stars and wondering why people want to ban you when quite obviously you had no idea what you were talking about. And now according to you, only when ice formation slows down, can the air that is cooling the ice can get colder, otherwise when the ice is forming rapidly the air that is cooling the ice is warmer! Andrew knows all there is to know about getting banned thats for sure!
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Post by icefisher on Oct 7, 2013 15:12:22 GMT
At the risk of getting Andrew all excited again - mainly this is the effect of the water freezing and releasing latent heat so the temperature remains relatively static while there is a lot of ice being formed then drops when the rate of formation slows. The extra drop then causes more ice to form and the temperature stabilizes while that happens and so on. There will also be affects from the weather that will lead to non linear temperature change and from the way the reported values from the multiple observation sites are turned into a single reported value. The first mistake in this paragraph in avoiding getting Andrew excited is actually using relative terminology. "Relatively static" will completely confuse Andrew. He will no deduce your statement means the air "can't" get colder while ice is freezing as opposed to "inhibiting" the cooling and only causing the "average" to be warmer.
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Post by douglavers on Oct 7, 2013 20:15:37 GMT
"For my own curiosity, why does the graph seem to move in "steps"? Is this an artifact of how the data is collected?"
Nautonnier's answer was that there is a "pause" while water area freezes, and then cooling resumes.
I could understand this in a "local" area, like Hudson Bay for example, but over the whole Arctic I would think that the pausing and cooling process would be statistically averaged over the vast area involved.
A co-ordinated "pause, freeze, pause" process over the whole Arctic is just too bizarre.
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Post by throttleup on Oct 15, 2013 23:50:37 GMT
Too bad Graywolf and T'stat aren't around to see this!
The Arctic! It's... it's... amplifying!
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Post by magellan on Oct 16, 2013 0:14:53 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Oct 16, 2013 0:34:28 GMT
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Post by sigurdur on Oct 16, 2013 2:18:04 GMT
It is going to be a damn long winter in the NH.
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Post by Pooh on Oct 16, 2013 3:50:04 GMT
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Post by cuttydyer on Oct 16, 2013 9:17:25 GMT
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Post by flearider on Oct 17, 2013 0:40:41 GMT
I think by the end of this winter arctic ice will be well above the 80's average ..that is if this winter ends .. the southern hem is not warming like it should .. very slow ..
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Post by cuttydyer on Oct 17, 2013 7:53:00 GMT
The two polar regions have been identified as key regions for monitoring global climate change, because the surface air temperature is expected to increase especially rapid in these two regions along with the ongoing increase of atmospheric CO2. So it's interesting to see that since approximately 2011, the Arctic MSU RSS temperature trend is for cooling - is this solar related and is it significant? Global monthly average lower troposphere temperature since 1979 for the northern polar Pole (60-82.5N) and southern polar (60-70S) regions, according to Remote Sensing Systems (RSS). These graphs uses data obtained by the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) TIROS-N satellite. Data link: www.remss.com/data/msu/monthly_time_series/RSS_Monthly_MSU_AMSU_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt
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