Cold world and no Fossil Fuels

[sigurdur]

It's not the tracking that seems to be the cause. It is disposal of fracking fluids.

[icefisher]

Nov 4, 2015 13:12:04 GMT sigurdur said:

It's not the tracking that seems to be the cause. It is disposal of fracking fluids.

Yes its a huge problem as little or no science exists regarding to which fracking fluids are bad and which are not. The thought of it pushes a lot of worry beads around.

[glennkoks]

Nov 3, 2015 16:59:27 GMT nautonnier said:

Is there a lot of fracking in OK?

Yes, there is a lot of fracking going on in OK.

[glennkoks]

Nov 11, 2015 1:41:35 GMT icefisher said:

Nov 4, 2015 13:12:04 GMT sigurdur said:

It's not the tracking that seems to be the cause. It is disposal of fracking fluids.

Yes its a huge problem as little or no science exists regarding to which fracking fluids are bad and which are not. The thought of it pushes a lot of worry beads around.

Icefisher,

Almost all of the fracking fluids are bad. It's a toxic mix of acids and chemicals used at great pressure to make fissures in the formation to allow oil and gas to flow through. The problem is many of the fracking companies claim their fluids are proprietary and have resisted disclosing just exactly what they are using. Overall if done properly at adequate depth fracking is probably safe. It is the shallower wells that are closer to aquifers that have me concerned.

As an employee in the industry I fear that it is just a matter of time before one of the smaller "wildcatters" contaminates an aquifer with fracking fluid and the Greenies will have all the ammo they need to shut fracking down permanently. As a pretty conservative guy I almost hate saying this but regulation may be in order to establish minimum depths and common sense guidelines. The stakes are too high and the protection of aquifers, jobs and an entire industry should be paramount.

[Andrew]

Nov 11, 2015 3:13:16 GMT glennkoks said:

Nov 11, 2015 1:41:35 GMT icefisher said:

Yes its a huge problem as little or no science exists regarding to which fracking fluids are bad and which are not. The thought of it pushes a lot of worry beads around.

Icefisher,

Almost all of the fracking fluids are bad. It's a toxic mix of acids and chemicals used at great pressure to make fissures in the formation to allow oil and gas to flow through. The problem is many of the fracking companies claim their fluids are proprietary and have resisted disclosing just exactly what they are using. Overall if done properly at adequate depth fracking is probably safe. It is the shallower wells that are closer to aquifers that have me concerned.

As an employee in the industry I fear that it is just a matter of time before one of the smaller "wildcatters" contaminates an aquifer with fracking fluid and the Greenies will have all the ammo they need to shut fracking down permanently. As a pretty conservative guy I almost hate saying this but regulation may be in order to establish minimum depths and common sense guidelines. The stakes are too high and the protection of aquifers, jobs and an entire industry should be paramount.

Fracking was a shovel ready project ready for billions in federal spending if only they ignored those regulations.

>>The stakes are too high and the protection of aquifers, jobs and an entire industry should be paramount.

Fixed that for you.

[nonentropic]

More than a million wells fraced virtually no examples of failure.

This is a green smear.

[walnut]

I have already lost a large ceramic pot that bounced off my porch during the 4.4. So that was a $150 failure (true story) haha

As to the earthquakes, there has been a fair amount of structural damage in Oklahoma believe it or not. Some old brick tower on some building at some college (?) was shaken apart for example. And I am sure there are already plenty of examples of cracked basements and brickwork.

As far as contaminated aquifers, I don't have any idea. It is the type of problem that I think that we cannot afford to have.

Don't get me wrong, I like the economic benefits to the nation of the fracking revolution.

[Ratty]

Interview with Australia's new Chief Scientist ..... FWIW.

Link to Interview

Excerpt 1 (Nuclear):

EMMA ALBERICI: As far as nuclear energy goes, are you convinced that the benefits of low emissions outweigh the costs and environmental risks?

ALAN FINKEL: It's something one would have to consider openly. I think that there's no doubt that, in terms of carbon dioxide emissions, nuclear is fantastic. It's right up there with solar and wind as a near-zero emissions technology.

And across the world nuclear has been used very, very safely. But we've had incidents that have been, I guess, rightly referred to as disasters that cause a great deal of concern about the role out of nuclear. So I don't think that nuclear should be adopted for nuclear's sake.

Asking whether we should use nuclear or solar and wind, I think, is asking the wrong question. But I don't think it's a question of, "Gee, we should do nuclear because nuclear's fantastic." We should have a debate to see whether it is the technology that we need to fill the gaps in our spectrum of technologies that are delivering the electricity that we need.

Excerpt 2 (Fracking):

ALAN FINKEL: But overall, you could say that if properly managed, with a good regulatory framework - and Australia is capable of applying good regulatory frameworks - that there is a lot of evidence that fracking is safe.

It's like any other technology: if it's not done appropriately, there will be problems.

That it's being used widely already in the coal seam gas fields, particularly in Queensland. It's being used widely across America. The evidence is not there that it's dangerous. In fact, the evidence is that, if properly regulated, it's completely safe.

The instances where there has been, say, some environmental damage or some contamination have always been due to lax practices. And you find that in any industry.

[glennkoks]

Andrew,

Thanks but I don't think my statement needed "fixing". If the proper procedures are in place we can keep our aquifers safe, create well paying jobs and produce cheap domestic oil and clean burning natural gas here in our own backyard.

[Andrew]

Nov 12, 2015 5:07:18 GMT glennkoks said:

Andrew,

Thanks but I don't think my statement needed "fixing". If the proper procedures are in place we can keep our aquifers safe, create well paying jobs and produce cheap domestic oil and clean burning natural gas here in our own backyard.

But when would the proper procedures be in place?

[fredzl4dh]

Nov 12, 2015 12:03:34 GMT Andrew said:

Nov 12, 2015 5:07:18 GMT glennkoks said:

Andrew,

Thanks but I don't think my statement needed "fixing". If the proper procedures are in place we can keep our aquifers safe, create well paying jobs and produce cheap domestic oil and clean burning natural gas here in our own backyard.

But when would the proper procedures be in place?

And who would decide what he proper procedures are, this could go on forever which is probable the whole idea.

[glennkoks]

Nov 12, 2015 12:03:34 GMT Andrew said:

Nov 12, 2015 5:07:18 GMT glennkoks said:

Andrew,

Thanks but I don't think my statement needed "fixing". If the proper procedures are in place we can keep our aquifers safe, create well paying jobs and produce cheap domestic oil and clean burning natural gas here in our own backyard.

But when would the proper procedures be in place? [/quote

The proper procedures are in place and have been. Thousands of wells have been Fracked and not one polluted aquifer. However the accident in the gulf reminds us of just what can happen when shortcuts are taken to increase profits

[icefisher]

Nov 11, 2015 3:13:16 GMT glennkoks said:

Nov 11, 2015 1:41:35 GMT icefisher said:

Yes its a huge problem as little or no science exists regarding to which fracking fluids are bad and which are not. The thought of it pushes a lot of worry beads around.

Icefisher,

Almost all of the fracking fluids are bad. It's a toxic mix of acids and chemicals used at great pressure to make fissures in the formation to allow oil and gas to flow through. The problem is many of the fracking companies claim their fluids are proprietary and have resisted disclosing just exactly what they are using. Overall if done properly at adequate depth fracking is probably safe. It is the shallower wells that are closer to aquifers that have me concerned.

As an employee in the industry I fear that it is just a matter of time before one of the smaller "wildcatters" contaminates an aquifer with fracking fluid and the Greenies will have all the ammo they need to shut fracking down permanently. As a pretty conservative guy I almost hate saying this but regulation may be in order to establish minimum depths and common sense guidelines. The stakes are too high and the protection of aquifers, jobs and an entire industry should be paramount.

I assume by bad you mean treating the stuff as koolaid and chugging it would result in sickness or death. But that is not what I meant as bad.

The fact is you can go to your local hardware stuff and find plenty of that sort of stuff in the aisles that you flush down your toilet into the ocean or infuse into a shallow septic drain field, spray on plants or driveways, allow it evaporate or combust into the air, or burn it and turn it into soot, CO, and other stuff. That in my book does not automatically qualify it as bad.

And by worrying about what government is going to do is possibly creates the most worry bead pushing of all. The problem seems ubiquitous as we push worry beads over what standard is being used for "organic" on our broccoli.

[glennkoks]

Icefisher,

By bad, I mean toxic if it gets into an aquifer in a strong enough concentration to be harmful if consumed. If the wells are cased, cemented and pressure tested properly there is essential no risk to the environment. However the Deepwater Horizon event in the Gulf of Mexico has shown us that proper drilling, casing and completing parameters are not always followed.

As someone who has benefited greatly from the North American Shale play I would welcome a nationwide standard for fracking these wells that establishes strict guidelines and even imposes criminal penalties for non compliance. In the current downturn with extremely low margins I would hate to think that safety takes a back seat to profits but I know better and have seen it too many times.

[van]

Yes lets ask the Govt (our worst polluter) to make rules for the rest of us to follow.