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Post by sigurdur on Jun 10, 2016 19:59:34 GMT
Western Peninsula area of Antarctica.
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 10, 2016 20:00:40 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Jun 10, 2016 20:10:55 GMT
I have never seen a realistic demonstration that even a large volcano sub-sea could warm a region of water. Water has a large heat capacity is this in fact true, does anyone have a paper that covers this? I agree nonentropic, however I can find no reason for warm ssta in the Arctic, when the waters that supply this region are low ssta? |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 10, 2016 20:28:32 GMT
Genuinely Missouriboy, your graps and use of locations are some of the more interesting I see anywhere! But then I am very immersed in this area!! I had not seen the link between nino and NA sst before, I wonder what the physical link could be?? Dya think this is part of curry's stadium wave?? Also, Katla is not on the alert list right now, it's still Bardabunga which has had 4mg earthquakes and appears to be inflating again, I find the idea of magma heating water interesting. ..it would explain the northern warmth. Honestly Acid, I don't know what to think. And I'm pretty sure that the Gods of Climate Science don't either. The current Nullschool image shows a 'MINI NINA' in the equatorial Atlantic?  and a 'glowing doughnut ring' above 20 N around the blob??? Extending all the way from Iceland??? Equatorial Atlantic SSTs were about +2 C in early June 2010. Now they are much cooler? June, 2010 - weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/sst_anom-100606.gifJune, 2016 - weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/sst_anom-160605.gifIf we don't get an equatorial Atlantifc SST bounce outta Godzilla, then???   |
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Post by acidohm on Jun 10, 2016 23:00:44 GMT
Genuinely Missouriboy, your graps and use of locations are some of the more interesting I see anywhere! But then I am very immersed in this area!! I had not seen the link between nino and NA sst before, I wonder what the physical link could be?? Dya think this is part of curry's stadium wave?? Also, Katla is not on the alert list right now, it's still Bardabunga which has had 4mg earthquakes and appears to be inflating again, I find the idea of magma heating water interesting. ..it would explain the northern warmth. Honestly Acid, I don't know what to think. And I'm pretty sure that the Gods of Climate Science don't either. The current Nullschool image shows a 'MINI NINA' in the equatorial Atlantic? and a 'glowing doughnut ring' above 20 N around the blob??? Extending all the way from Iceland??? Equatorial Atlantic SSTs were about +2 C in early June 2010. Now they are much cooler? June, 2010 - weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/sst_anom-100606.gifJune, 2016 - weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/sst_anom-160605.gifIf we don't get an equatorial Atlantifc SST bounce outta Godzilla, then??? For sure! Question is, HOW does that cold patch exist when supplied by the warm gulf stream....and then HOW are the waters north of this cold then increased in ssta? (I know you've asked this question before!!) |
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Post by Ratty on Jun 10, 2016 23:54:16 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Jun 10, 2016 23:58:51 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 11, 2016 2:01:10 GMT
Muchas gracias Senor Ratty! I would just guess that any water warmed by geothermal/volcanic activity would rise in a cold ocean? HADSST3 are SSTs ... so, which brainiac out there can tell me how many joules (or otherwise) of energy would be required to raise the surface temperature of the North-Norwegian Seas by 0.5 C ... and whether that is in the range of possibility? Doesn't make sense that a data adjuster would raise temperature bubbles covering periods of 4 to 8 years with intervals of about two decades. And even though there are apparently floats in these seas, the data are not included in the Argo Global Ocean data. THERE ARE STRANGE THINGS DONE BENEATH THE MIDNIGHT SUN ... is this one of them? From Sig's post ... The minimum average heat flow beneath Thwaites Glacier is 114 milliwatts per square meter (or per about 10 square feet) with some areas giving off 200 milliwatts per square meter or more, the researchers report today (June 9) in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. (A milliwatt is one-thousandth of a watt.) In comparison, Schroeder said, the average heat flow of the rest of the continents is 65 milliwatts per square meter. However, active volcanic vents could release much greater quantities than that I would guess. |
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Post by acidohm on Jun 11, 2016 6:04:27 GMT
I guess one could draw analogues from known areas of magma/water interaction eg, mid atlantic ridge....
But surely if there was a stonking great volcano capable of heating a sea. ....its presence would not be hidden from us??
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Post by Ratty on Jun 11, 2016 6:49:18 GMT
MD said ( inter alia): " ...... so, which brainiac out there can tell me how many joules (or otherwise) of energy would be required to raise the surface temperature of the North-Norwegian Seas by 0.5 C ... and whether that is in the range of possibility?". Hang on, I'll get out my super slide rule. How many decimal places do you need?  Those were the days! |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 11, 2016 13:15:52 GMT
MD said ( inter alia): " ...... so, which brainiac out there can tell me how many joules (or otherwise) of energy would be required to raise the surface temperature of the North-Norwegian Seas by 0.5 C ... and whether that is in the range of possibility?". Hang on, I'll get out my super slide rule. How many decimal places do you need? Those were the days! I remember that thing vaguely. About the time I was starting to get good with it, out came computers and I was dragging my box of cards across campus. Rounding to the nearest million or billion joules will do nicely.  |
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Post by nonentropic on Jun 11, 2016 19:49:23 GMT
How deep do you want the surface temperature to extend?
one other thing the Nullschool SSTA is not the same as SST so a cool anomaly may in fact be a result of surface water sliding under cooler water due to a secondary impact such as saline variability.
The nullschool site is very good but what will they say about our discussions with a further 40 years of data. If you look at the past the biggest frustration is the lack of a metric such as Antarctic sea ice cover for much more than half of an observed cycle.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 11, 2016 21:02:53 GMT
How deep do you want the surface temperature to extend? one other thing the Nullschool SSTA is not the same as SST so a cool anomaly may in fact be a result of surface water sliding under cooler water due to a secondary impact such as saline variability. The nullschool site is very good but what will they say about our discussions with a further 40 years of data. If you look at the past the biggest frustration is the lack of a metric such as Antarctic sea ice cover for much more than half of an observed cycle. All very good points. The question was aimed at evaluating whether volcanic / geothermal heating of the ocean in specific locations, to the extent that we can measure it as an anomaly from normal over a relatively large area, is even possible / likely. People seem to have different opinions on this, but I don't know that there are any data. HADSST3 data suggests that periodic temperature elevations do occur at regular intervals back through the 1960s. I am using the unfilled version and cannot conjure a reason why anyone would deliberately create 'bumps' in a data set. I had assumed that nullschool would simply 'use' the SST and SSTA inputs from Unisys and then 'stretch' the values across their own color range. Some of the Unisys color schemes were God awful until a few years ago. I also assume that the anomalies are from monthly normals ... and clicking retrieves an actual number (no indication of quality). What would be really useful (to me) is if one could retrieve a statistical distribution of values for a point or area, for the same time period across the entire range of observations. Yes, I'm being anal. But this equatorial coldness looks 'different', but that is not quantifiable without significant effort. Then, of course, there is the 3D aspect. In 40 years, they may think us primitive. But I would bet money they'll still be pissing and moaning about lack of data and manipulative capability. We humans are funny.  God only knows how our ancestors made do. |
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Post by acidohm on Jun 11, 2016 21:54:59 GMT
TBH Missouriboy...I rather think we overcomplicate it, I'm not sure homo erectus was worse off not knowing much of what we 'know' now....
Of course hind sight is wonderful!!!
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Post by acidohm on Jun 11, 2016 22:01:00 GMT
How deep do you want the surface temperature to extend? one other thing the Nullschool SSTA is not the same as SST so a cool anomaly may in fact be a result of surface water sliding under cooler water due to a secondary impact such as saline variability. The nullschool site is very good but what will they say about our discussions with a further 40 years of data. If you look at the past the biggest frustration is the lack of a metric such as Antarctic sea ice cover for much more than half of an observed cycle. All very good points. The question was aimed at evaluating whether volcanic / geothermal heating of the ocean in specific locations, to the extent that we can measure it as an anomaly from normal over a relatively large area, is even possible / likely. People seem to have different opinions on this, but I don't know that there are any data. HADSST3 data suggests that periodic temperature elevations do occur at regular intervals back through the 1960s. I am using the unfilled version and cannot conjure a reason why anyone would deliberately create 'bumps' in a data set. I had assumed that nullschool would simply 'use' the SST and SSTA inputs from Unisys and then 'stretch' the values across their own color range. Some of the Unisys color schemes were God awful until a few years ago. I also assume that the anomalies are from monthly normals ... and clicking retrieves an actual number (no indication of quality). What would be really useful (to me) is if one could retrieve a statistical distribution of values for a point or area, for the same time period across the entire range of observations. Yes, I'm being anal. But this equatorial coldness looks 'different', but that is not quantifiable without significant effort. Then, of course, there is the 3D aspect. In 40 years, they may think us primitive. But I would bet money they'll still be pissing and moaning about lack of data and manipulative capability. We humans are funny. God only knows how our ancestors made do. Can i put it out there.....a relationship between uk lightening strike/torrential rain correlation to colder then usual winter temps? Something I have obsered last 10 years, not much lightening/torrential summer rain during solar maximum....really busy right now but seems worth looking at? |
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and a 'glowing doughnut ring' above 20 N around the blob???
God only knows how our ancestors made do.