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Post by douglavers on Jun 18, 2013 0:49:40 GMT
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Post by cuttydyer on Jun 18, 2013 4:34:29 GMT
If I may ask, why do you post your links twice? So, you've digested the charts, and are now in agreement that the overall NH temps (including sea temps) are in decline. In summer, in the Northern hemisphere, it is getting warmer. Are you denying it? It's certainly not getting warmer during the Summer months in the UK (shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?). You're claiming that for the rest of the NH, Summer temps are increasing but not to the extent that Winter temps are decreasing, so overall the NH is cooling? - please supply evidence (with links). What happened to the link for your wonderful chart?
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dresi
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 120
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Post by dresi on Jun 18, 2013 18:37:05 GMT
Weather is really crazy this year. We had extremely long winter with 40 cm of snow in April, very wet spring and huge floods two weeks ago and now? Record breaking heat wave (records from last year were broken again and the worst is yet before us) with storms and tornadoes. We can't catch a break.
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Post by numerouno on Jun 18, 2013 20:47:21 GMT
If I may ask, why do you post your links twice? So, you've digested the charts, and are now in agreement that the overall NH temps (including sea temps) are in decline. In summer, in the Northern hemisphere, it is getting warmer. Are you denying it? It's certainly not getting warmer during the Summer months in the UK (shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?). You're claiming that for the rest of the NH, Summer temps are increasing but not to the extent that Winter temps are decreasing, so overall the NH is cooling? - please supply evidence (with links). What happened to the link for your wonderful chart? The yearly average temps in Finland 1980-2012 for Helsini Kaisaniemi (southern coast), 1884-2012 for Jyväskylä (Central Finland), and 1908-2012 for Sodankylä in Lapland. The thinner line for Helsinki is the UHI-corrected value, as the station is right in the center. The linear warming trend for Finland based on observations of the yearly average temp between 1902-2012 is now Winter +0.41C Spring +1.86C Summer +0.89C Fall +0.91C Entire year +0.99C for every 105 years. ilmasto-opas.fi/fi/ilmastonmuutos/suomen-muuttuva-ilmasto/-/artikkeli/16266ad3-e5f5-4987-8760-2b74655182d5/muutos-havaittavissa-160-vuotta-mittauksia.html Finnish Meteorological Institute. "shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?"I see you like to make a clown of yourself, so why not. Three is a good number - and please stop seeking my approval!
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Post by cuttydyer on Jun 18, 2013 21:32:56 GMT
So, you've digested the charts, and are now in agreement that the overall NH temps (including sea temps) are in decline. It's certainly not getting warmer during the Summer months in the UK (shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?). You're claiming that for the rest of the NH, Summer temps are increasing but not to the extent that Winter temps are decreasing, so overall the NH is cooling? - please supply evidence (with links). What happened to the link for your wonderful chart? The yearly average temps in Finland 1980-2012 for Helsini Kaisaniemi (southern coast), 1884-2012 for Jyväskylä (Central Finland), and 1908-2012 for Sodankylä in Lapland. The thinner line for Helsinki is the UHI-corrected value, as the station is right in the center. The linear warming trend for Finland based on observations of the yearly average temp between 1902-2012 is now Winter +0.41C Spring +1.86C Summer +0.89C Fall +0.91C Entire year +0.99C for every 105 years. ilmasto-opas.fi/fi/ilmastonmuutos/suomen-muuttuva-ilmasto/-/artikkeli/16266ad3-e5f5-4987-8760-2b74655182d5/muutos-havaittavissa-160-vuotta-mittauksia.html Finnish Meteorological Institute. "shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?"I see you like to make a clown of yourself, so why not. Three is a good number - and please stop seeking my approval! Do my eyes deceive me, or do those charts you've just posted show a decline in temperature for the last 10 years (are these Summer temps?). So it looks as though Finland's temps are in agreement with the rest of the Northern Hemisphere. Where's the link to the data so I can take a closer look? ______________________________________________________________ EDIT: Dutch Summer temps are inline with the rest of the NH; data for the last 10 years: Link to data: www.euronet.nl/users/e_wesker/weer/labrijn.html
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Post by numerouno on Jun 18, 2013 21:52:15 GMT
Where's the link to the data so I can take a closer look?
The FMI has recently released all its data in principle, but the practical arrangements are still ongoing. You will need to register with them first, whereby you will be given the API key that you are using with your interfacing with the Institute's database engine. I'm afraid you will need to be somewhat fluent in modern statistical computing. It's better you contact them directly.
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Post by flearider on Jun 18, 2013 23:38:20 GMT
dilute the salinity of the ocean currents and it will slow or even stop the conveyor belt ..and there was a lot of fresh put into the system last melt .. and yes at different times the ice has different heats but not all at the same time .. so if your not getting the heat all the way under/up to the ice it's not going to melt so fast only the heat from above but most of that is being reflected .. ?
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Post by numerouno on Jun 20, 2013 23:32:28 GMT
How are possibly going to get through this summer, I just ask you folks.
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 20, 2013 23:41:29 GMT
It is nice being on the warm side of a Rossby wave.
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Post by numerouno on Jun 21, 2013 0:15:13 GMT
It is nice being on the warm side of a Rossby wave. Especially one that is large and travelling slowly across for the most of the summer ....
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 21, 2013 1:32:29 GMT
It is nice being on the warm side of a Rossby wave. Especially one that is large and travelling slowly across for the most of the summer .... That's what blocking 'omega' highs do.
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Post by cuttydyer on Jun 21, 2013 4:58:56 GMT
It is nice being on the warm side of a Rossby wave. Especially one that is large and travelling slowly across for the most of the summer .... Meanwhile, on the cool side of the wave: CET graph 2000 - 2013: Provisional CET anomaly (up to 19th June): -0.93°C(6th latest year to have a CET > 15 since 1772)
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Post by magellan on Jun 21, 2013 23:26:37 GMT
The yearly average temps in Finland 1980-2012 for Helsini Kaisaniemi (southern coast), 1884-2012 for Jyväskylä (Central Finland), and 1908-2012 for Sodankylä in Lapland. The thinner line for Helsinki is the UHI-corrected value, as the station is right in the center. The linear warming trend for Finland based on observations of the yearly average temp between 1902-2012 is now Winter +0.41C Spring +1.86C Summer +0.89C Fall +0.91C Entire year +0.99C for every 105 years. ilmasto-opas.fi/fi/ilmastonmuutos/suomen-muuttuva-ilmasto/-/artikkeli/16266ad3-e5f5-4987-8760-2b74655182d5/muutos-havaittavissa-160-vuotta-mittauksia.html Finnish Meteorological Institute. "shall I re-post the above Met CET Summer chart?"I see you like to make a clown of yourself, so why not. Three is a good number - and please stop seeking my approval! Do my eyes deceive me, or do those charts you've just posted show a decline in temperature for the last 10 years (are these Summer temps?). So it looks as though Finland's temps are in agreement with the rest of the Northern Hemisphere. Where's the link to the data so I can take a closer look? ______________________________________________________________ EDIT: Dutch Summer temps are inline with the rest of the NH; data for the last 10 years: Link to data: www.euronet.nl/users/e_wesker/weer/labrijn.htmlNo cuttydyer, your eyes do not deceive you.
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Post by magellan on Jun 22, 2013 3:10:49 GMT
Looking at Finland's temperature history per Numerouno's link, the Helsinki temperature plot looks to have quite a jump since 1990 or so, even with UHI adjustments. So I wondered what the nearest station GISS used showed. It appears to be Helsinki/Seutula (60.3 N,25.0 E). As GISS is known for its manipulation of data in the Arctic region (ex. Iceland) I fully expected a large positive trend for the last two decades. data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_614029740000_14_0/station.txtHelsinki/Seutula (60.3 N,25.0 E) According to GISS, Helsinki/Seutula temperature trend has been virtually flat (-.03/dec) since 1989. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no station GISS ID for Kaisaniemi, but the general region according to Google Earth looks like this: It isn't surprising Numerouno probably thinks UHI and other temperature measurement uncertainties have been completely accounted for ================================================================================================================= Next we have Jyvaskyla. Same thing, flat line since 1989. data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_614029350000_14_0/station.txt================================================================================================================== Finally there is Sodankylä, which has data back to 1910. From 1910-2013 according to GISS, the trend is a whopping .056/dec. From 1989-2013 it is .08/dec (yawn). From 1999-2013 it is -.28/dec. Basically, it just ain't warming even by eyeballing. Oh, and HadCRUT4 shows the same thing. Of note in all three data sets is a large step change from 1988-1989. What the cause of that would be interesting to discover. It looks similar to the 'Great Pacific Climate Shift' of 1975 which is now reversing. data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_614028360000_14_0/station.txtUsing a higher lambda value for the detrend analysis, the data for the past 100+ years sure looks like a sine wave to me. A mythical cycle maybe? Nothing to see here really. And as posted earlier, UAH also shows no warming since at least 1989, and is in fact cooling in the Finland region for the past 10 years just as cuttydyer observed.
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Post by numerouno on Jun 22, 2013 15:42:26 GMT
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