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Post by missouriboy on Jun 2, 2017 23:44:27 GMT
Some on this forum have, at times, expressed an interest in the topic of disaster preparation. Not in the sense of the radical prepper, but rather as a common sense approach, insurance as I believe Glennkoks called it, for bridging times of shortage brought on by any number of possible events. Food, water, heat, exchange mediums, guns and ammo all qualify as forms of insurance. This is a tread for posting common or unique information or ideas. Having access to land and plenty of time, I have become interested in developing edible landscapes, with a preference for tough, insect-resistant, drought tolerant plants that produce edible parts that store well without refrigeration. If they are pretty, so much the better. If they reproduce prolifically with little to no help from me ... even better. If they provide lots of calories and a full range of necessary vitamins, minerals and amino acids ... then that is what you want. I'll start this thread with seeds. I've mentioned this before, but there are a wide range sproutable seeds that can produce most of the green matter you may need to consume without ever going to the grocery store. All you need are standard canning jars, clean water for daily rinsing of the seeds (it is re-usable for cooking in a pinch). and screen or coarse gauze for draining. And of course cleanliness ... you don't want e-coli outbreaks. Seeds store for a very long time. I have some alfalfa seeds that I have stored in double ziplock plastic bags for 7 years now. They still sprout. The following site contains a lot of good information on the bio-chemical effects of sprouting on nutrition as well as types and how toos on sprouting seeds and grains. There are others. sproutpeople.org/Lacking other suppiies, you can provide salad for 3 (minus roughage) from a quart jar (4 cups) grown from 2 tablespoons of seed. One pound of seed will yield about 20 jars. Alfalfa or clover seed sprouts take 6 to 7 days (about as long as your refrigerated veggies will last if the power goes out). Starting a new jar every day keeps you going. Other seed and grains take a shorter time period. If you let them grow longer, you can have what they call micro greens. A little balsamic vinegar, olive oil and/or various spices can dress them out nicely. Besides the seeds shown on the above site, there are many non-standard others you can sprout, e.g. the cottage flower Dame's Rocket (Hesperis matronalis). It's a member of the mustard family and has a long bloom time. Europeans used the leaves in salads along with field mustard and dandalions. Long storage time, short sprouting time and tasty product make seeds a very useful food store. |
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Post by nemesis on Jun 3, 2017 16:53:28 GMT
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Post by acidohm on Jun 3, 2017 17:12:08 GMT
My kids are not going to survive unless i go out and wrestle cattle and chicken to the death.
I am deeply impressed by anyone who can produce their own food in this way, it represents real freedom from the shackles of our dependant society.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 3, 2017 21:32:34 GMT
My kids are not going to survive unless i go out and wrestle cattle and chicken to the death. I am deeply impressed by anyone who can produce their own food in this way, it represents real freedom from the shackles of our dependant society. They have cattle and chickens in your urban neighborhood?  We have deer ... and I'm considering a crossbow ... mainly cause I'm seriously irritated at the buck who beheaded TWO of my young apple trees, AND which ever one(s) that are eating my lillies and asters. Neighbors and city get upset if you start blazing away with firearms ... but a crossbow ... silent ... and you can skin that sucker before anyone's the wiser.  And before you have to explain to an 8 year old why you shot Bambi.  Seriously ... I've seen some really innovative urban (and suburban) gardeners. People who have erected vertical hanging gardens along the sunny side of the house, or on a deck. Gotta rig up a watering system of course. And winter storage is a problem unless you can a lot, like my dad's family did. But that is where seeds shine. Imagine, 20 lbs of seed (with an adequate source of water) can provide 1.3 cups of greens per person - one part of 1 meal - for a family of 3 ) for a year. Sprouted oats and barley can supposedly make decent breakfasts (haven't tried that yet, but they only take 2 or 3 days to sprout). You have to expand on that of course. Root crops with a longish shelf live, or which store in the ground like Jerusalem artichokes. Dry beans, corn, peas, lentils and other (store in the bag for a very long time) provide additional protein and carbs. Stray dogs and cats (sorry SPCA) ... actually I'd be more likely to adopt them than eat them. Around here you can acquire tough plastic (food grade - UV resistant) water tanks that you can rig up to the guttering system for $0.40 to $1 per cubic foot (not including shipping). One sloping side of my roof will produce about 300 gallons of water out of a 1-inch rain and we average 3-4 inches a month. Theoretically, using both sides could produce 1800 gallons in a below average month, which is 20 gallons per person per day (less than the average of 60-70 we use now - so no more long showers, hand wash the laundry and the toilet might need to be moved). My 17 year old would not be pleased. So, if you own your home with some storage space and have a decent exposure, you can really set yourself up for a minimum amount of cash. If you add water filters or chemicals or hand pumps, etc, then add a little more. I've done enough camping and cooking over firepits with dutch ovens that I know you can cook if your utilities go out. All you need is a supply of wood, kindling and matches and something to keep them all dry. You can erect wind breaks. So, it's really just like boy scouts with a big storage and prep area. At worst it's an interesting urban engineering project and it doesn't cost more than a couple of vacations (or so). So, if you never use it, count your blessings ... and if tastefully done, it's a new selling point for your house.  You can do it Acid! An added note: A friend left me with a bunch of vegetable seeds of numerous type. Packages were opened and stored in a shoe box. The youngest package was 3 years old. So I planted some ... and they're growing. Tough little suckers. |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 3, 2017 21:53:24 GMT
Some on this forum have, at times, expressed an interest in the topic of disaster preparation. Not in the sense of the radical prepper, but rather as a common sense approach, insurance as I believe Glennkoks called it, for bridging times of shortage brought on by any number of possible events. Food, water, heat, exchange mediums, guns and ammo all qualify as forms of insurance. This is a tread for posting common or unique information or ideas. Having access to land and plenty of time, I have become interested in developing edible landscapes, with a preference for tough, insect-resistant, drought tolerant plants that produce edible parts that store well without refrigeration. If they are pretty, so much the better. If they reproduce prolifically with little to no help from me ... even better. If they provide lots of calories and a full range of necessary vitamins, minerals and amino acids ... then that is what you want. I'll start this thread with seeds. I've mentioned this before, but there are a wide range sproutable seeds that can produce most of the green matter you may need to consume without ever going to the grocery store. All you need are standard canning jars, clean water for daily rinsing of the seeds (it is re-usable for cooking in a pinch). and screen or coarse gauze for draining. And of course cleanliness ... you don't want e-coli outbreaks. Seeds store for a very long time. I have some alfalfa seeds that I have stored in double ziplock plastic bags for 7 years now. They still sprout. The following site contains a lot of good information on the bio-chemical effects of sprouting on nutrition as well as types and how toos on sprouting seeds and grains. There are others. sproutpeople.org/Lacking other suppiies, you can provide salad for 3 (minus roughage) from a quart jar (4 cups) grown from 2 tablespoons of seed. One pound of seed will yield about 20 jars. Alfalfa or clover seed sprouts take 6 to 7 days (about as long as your refrigerated veggies will last if the power goes out). Starting a new jar every day keeps you going. Other seed and grains take a shorter time period. If you let them grow longer, you can have what they call micro greens. A little balsamic vinegar, olive oil and/or various spices can dress them out nicely. Besides the seeds shown on the above site, there are many non-standard others you can sprout, e.g. the cottage flower Dame's Rocket (Hesperis matronalis). It's a member of the mustard family and has a long bloom time. Europeans used the leaves in salads along with field mustard and dandalions. Long storage time, short sprouting time and tasty product make seeds a very useful food store. Have an interest out here in the PNW mainly for earthquake prep (2 weeks) and for fun. It is kinda fun. But my wife says my idea of fun is a bit 'stunted'. |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 3, 2017 21:54:29 GMT
Thanks nemesis. I'm on it. I have a lot of extra not-so-pretty apples every year and his ideas on hooch and cider are interesting. Back in 18th century N America, the majority of apple production went into cider ... long storage life ... avoid polluted water ... and party! They also make excellent fertilizer. Started two peach trees, one on a site that I dug in a bushel of apples, and the other with nothing. This year, the volume of the apple-fed tree is probably at least 6 to 1. Otherwise same soil. |
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 4, 2017 10:28:28 GMT
Thanks nemesis. I'm on it. I have a lot of extra not-so-pretty apples every year and his ideas on hooch and cider are interesting. Back in 18th century N America, the majority of apple production went into cider ... long storage life ... avoid polluted water ... and party! They also make excellent fertilizer. Started two peach trees, one on a site that I dug in a bushel of apples, and the other with nothing. This year, the volume of the apple-fed tree is probably at least 6 to 1. Otherwise same soil. Many years ago I spent some time on an old farm in Somerset England. The farm had an orchard around it with an old 'barn'. The barn actually contained 2 large barrels or vats around 25ft or so(?) high. When the apples were ripe or were windfalls they were gathered and crushed in large press. The 'cake' went to feed cattle, the juice was put in the 'empty' vat. Nothing special was done with the juice. The other vat was from the previous year and the 'apple juice' would be drunk during harvest. It tasted just like raw apple-juice but it was around 20% alcohol so real 'scrumpy'. The yeasts were just wild yeast rather like kriek beers in Belgium. You don't need to do anything clever with apple juice the yeasts are probably already growing on the apple skins. After multiple years use the yeasts left in the vats will evolve to become more alcohol tolerant. |
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 4, 2017 21:46:42 GMT
Many years ago I spent some time on an old farm in Somerset England. The farm had an orchard around it with an old 'barn'. The barn actually contained 2 large barrels or vats around 25ft or so(?) high. When the apples were ripe or were windfalls they were gathered and crushed in large press. The 'cake' went to feed cattle, the juice was put in the 'empty' vat. Nothing special was done with the juice. The other vat was from the previous year and the 'apple juice' would be drunk during harvest. It tasted just like raw apple-juice but it was around 20% alcohol so real 'scrumpy'. The yeasts were just wild yeast rather like kriek beers in Belgium. You don't need to do anything clever with apple juice the yeasts are probably already growing on the apple skins. After multiple years use the yeasts left in the vats will evolve to become more alcohol tolerant. We have a press very similar to this one <<SNIP>> Image Next time I am in Seattle perhaps I should find you and sample its output  |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 5, 2017 1:43:01 GMT
Many years ago I spent some time on an old farm in Somerset England. The farm had an orchard around it with an old 'barn'. The barn actually contained 2 large barrels or vats around 25ft or so(?) high. When the apples were ripe or were windfalls they were gathered and crushed in large press. The 'cake' went to feed cattle, the juice was put in the 'empty' vat. Nothing special was done with the juice. The other vat was from the previous year and the 'apple juice' would be drunk during harvest. It tasted just like raw apple-juice but it was around 20% alcohol so real 'scrumpy'. The yeasts were just wild yeast rather like kriek beers in Belgium. You don't need to do anything clever with apple juice the yeasts are probably already growing on the apple skins. After multiple years use the yeasts left in the vats will evolve to become more alcohol tolerant. We have a press very similar to this one How much did your setup cost you? It looks quite good enough. I have a very tasty disease resistant yellow apple (Gold Rush). Only problem is that the 'sooty blotch' loves it. The vector is wild blackberries which are rampant. It doesn't generally hurt the inside of the apple ... just makes the skin look like crap. Since this is a fungi I wonder how it would interact with yeast, which is also in the fungi world. New trade name - Sooty Blotch Cider ... black or brown colored cider?  It can be mostly removed with water and lots of elbow grease, but is very labor intensive. Other method requires lots of fungicide, which I try to avoid. Like the other Dow, it is definitely toxic. |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 6, 2017 3:03:24 GMT
How much did your setup cost you? It looks quite good enough. I have a very tasty disease resistant yellow apple (Gold Rush). Only problem is that the 'sooty blotch' loves it. The vector is wild blackberries which are rampant. It doesn't generally hurt the inside of the apple ... just makes the skin look like crap. Since this is a fungi I wonder how it would interact with yeast, which is also in the fungi world. New trade name - Sooty Blotch Cider ... black or brown colored cider? It can be mostly removed with water and lots of elbow grease, but is very labor intensive. Other method requires lots of fungicide, which I try to avoid. Like the other Dow, it is definitely toxic. Didn't cost a penny. Belongs to the family and I believe was purchased in the 60's. We have a few trees with plans to put in more. I've been looking at Williams Pride, might put one in in a couple weeks, also looking at the Arkansas Black. Two old heirloom varieties which I haven't tried. I heard people liking the Williams pride taste, ... and if it doesn't die from the fireblight. I selected some of the newer disease-resistant varieties that got good taste test reviews. Gold Rush, enterprise and liberty mostly on avg. dependable M-111 or Bud118 semi-dwarfing rootstock. Those on the multistem rootstocks seemed to get more graft union disease for whatever reason. Gold Rush and Enterprise have get taste and a long shelf live in cooled conditions. Sooty blotch loves God Rush though. The vector appears to be blackberries. |
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Post by glennkoks on Jun 7, 2017 3:25:34 GMT
I am no expert in "prepping" but I have a neighbor who is... For those of you who don't know, part of what the Church of Latter Day Saints teaches is to have a food supply of at least one year for whatever happens. They have food storage outlets all over the nation and you can buy beans, oatmeal, rice etc in number 10 cans that are supposed to be good for 30 years that are very reasonably priced. If you are interested a few hundred dollars can buy a pretty good amount. Then it is also a good idea to have a good supply of seeds, a firearm or two with ammo and life straws.
I would also recommend storing a few meds including antidiarrheal and antibiotics.
Prepper tip of the day? Fishmox sold at Wal-Mart is the same amoxicillin Dr's prescribe. Would definitely come in handy during a Zombie Apocalypse. The way I look at it if you deem it necessary to store food you are probably going to have to protect that food from those who would take it if they get hungry.
Personally I have about a one month supply of food stored for "insurance" a few weapons, water, filtration and a limited supply of medicine/bandages. I don't know exactly what is "prudent" by todays standards but I probably don't have enough...
If it comes to me actually needing it I know I don't have enough.
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Post by sigurdur on Jun 7, 2017 3:41:46 GMT
I don't have enough, but I am not worried. I know how to survive.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 7, 2017 3:44:52 GMT
I am no expert in "prepping" but I have a neighbor who is... For those of you who don't know, part of what the Church of Latter Day Saints teaches is to have a food supply of at least one year for whatever happens. They have food storage outlets all over the nation and you can buy beans, oatmeal, rice etc in number 10 cans that are supposed to be good for 30 years that are very reasonably priced. If you are interested a few hundred dollars can buy a pretty good amount. Then it is also a good idea to have a good supply of seeds, a firearm or two with ammo and life straws. I would also recommend storing a few meds including antidiarrheal and antibiotics. Prepper tip of the day? Fishmox sold at Wal-Mart is the same amoxicillin Dr's prescribe. Would definitely come in handy during a Zombie Apocalypse. The way I look at it if you deem it necessary to store food you are probably going to have to protect that food from those who would take it if they get hungry. Personally I have about a one month supply of food stored for "insurance" a few weapons, water, filtration and a limited supply of medicine/bandages. I don't know exactly what is "prudent" by todays standards but I probably don't have enough... If it comes to me actually needing it I know I don't have enough. All good suggestions. The Later Day Saints have pretty good stuff. What is a 'life straw'? |
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Post by glennkoks on Jun 7, 2017 21:12:23 GMT
Another prepper tip of of the day. If you live in an urban area have an exit plan. You want to get away from as many other "hungry" people as possible. Katrina taught us how fast our societal norms break down in the absence of police. So look for a rural location in a geographically isolated place. In my case I have a small fishing camp on the coast in a tiny community population about 28. Water wells are abundant, large propane tanks for heating cooking and septic. Lots of fish, waterfowl and game.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 7, 2017 22:50:09 GMT
Another prepper tip of of the day. If you live in an urban area have an exit plan. You want to get away from as many other "hungry" people as possible. Katrina taught us how fast our societal norms break down in the absence of police. So look for a rural location in a geographically isolated place. In my case I have a small fishing camp on the coast in a tiny community population about 28. Water wells are abundant, large propane tanks for heating cooking and septic. Lots of fish, waterfowl and game. I live in a small university town (approx. 100K). Lots of students (snowflakes) that don't know much about guns and would probably head home. In a real pinch, the family farm is 18 miles up the road in the heart of the old Blackfoot country (partisan rangers territory - still wave the old flags in places). We're heavily interbred up there ... more close and distant cousins than you can throw a stick at. Ten miles further and you're into heavy corn and soybean country with some small cattle operations. This area could feed Columbia if they organized. Any raiding parties would find themselves looking like Johnston's dead Yankees at Centralia if they weren't REAL careful. And of course the Amish (sizeable settlement) are just up the road a piece. Good people. We trade with them a lot. They wouldn't even notice that the lights had gone out.  I can see them offering a lot of survival classes.  Good capitalists, farmers, blacksmiths, tanners, you name it. Just nothing modern. |
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We have deer ... and I'm considering a crossbow ... mainly cause I'm seriously irritated at the buck who beheaded TWO of my young apple trees, AND which ever one(s) that are eating my lillies and asters. Neighbors and city get upset if you start blazing away with firearms ... but a crossbow ... silent ... and you can skin that sucker before anyone's the wiser. 
And before you have to explain to an 8 year old why you shot Bambi. 
It can be mostly removed with water and lots of elbow grease, but is very labor intensive. Other method requires lots of fungicide, which I try to avoid. Like the other Dow, it is definitely toxic.
I can see them offering a lot of survival classes. 
Good capitalists, farmers, blacksmiths, tanners, you name it. Just nothing modern.