|
Post by sigurdur on Feb 28, 2021 16:23:52 GMT
This is all good unless it happens to be a bit chilly. Then the range is cut more than 1/2. I've read that AAA claimed EVs in general can lose 40% of their range in sub-zero F, but again, there's more to this than what is circulating. First, Tesla uses a different mechanism for their heater in newer cars, and it doesn't drain the battery nearly as much. Second, you have an unusable area of battery when it is cold that becomes usable as the battery warms up due to use: evannex.com/blogs/news/calculating-tesla-model-3-range-loss-through-a-cold-winter-night-videoYou will lose some range in the cold, but not half. Or at least, not in any conditions I'm going to be driving in. A friend from Fargo bought a Tesla. Proud owner decided to drive north 154 miles to show his parents. He barely made it. To add insult to injury, he didn't bring his adapter. Had to use 110V to charge. 4 1/2 days later he drove back to Fargo, barely making it. He is going to sell his Tesla. No one around my parts thinks electric vehicles are not useful for certain applications. Farmers are very tech savvy, are quick adaptors. What we recognize are the limitations of 🔋. I just pulled my camper 1650 miles. I usually drive about 250 miles, then stop for fuel and a walk around. The stop takes about 15 minutes. Weight is a factor. I have single rears, gross with camper is about 26,200lbs. To achieve the effective range i would gross over 32,000lbs with electric,forcing me to have a dually. Time to charge would be about 3 hrs with today's tech. Making Proclamations that there will be no ICE vehicles by 2030 is stupid.
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Feb 28, 2021 17:03:02 GMT
A friend from Fargo bought a Tesla. Proud owner decided to drive north 154 miles to show his parents. He barely made it. To add insult to injury, he didn't bring his adapter. Had to use 110V to charge. 4 1/2 days later he drove back to Fargo, barely making it. He is going to sell his Tesla. No one around my parts thinks electric vehicles are not useful for certain applications. Farmers are very tech savvy, are quick adaptors. What we recognize are the limitations of 🔋. I just pulled my camper 1650 miles. I usually drive about 250 miles, then stop for fuel and a walk around. The stop takes about 15 minutes. Weight is a factor. I have single rears, gross with camper is about 26,200lbs. To achieve the effective range i would gross over 32,000lbs with electric,forcing me to have a dually. Time to charge would be about 3 hrs with today's tech. Making Proclamations that there will be no ICE vehicles by 2030 is stupid. There aren't many chargers around your area, Sig. For your friend going north, there is a Chargeway (not Tesla) charger in Grand Forks, and another in Grafton, but no Tesla supercharger in that direction. He definitely should have had that adapter with him. Charging on a standard 110 will only give 5-7 miles of range per hour, and that's why I had the NEMA 14-50 put in my garage - that gets about 25 miles of range per hour. (FWIW, the only Tesla supercharger I see in Fargo is at Casey's General Store at 5680 23rd Ave S.) Most of the country is very different from that area, though. I don't think there will be no ICE vehicles by 2030. I've been following the development of hydrogen fuel cells for about 15 years now, and they're nowhere near being ready to replace ICE vehicles, even though I wish they were. I don't see a viable replacement for applications like farming, yet. However, I think there will be a lot more EVs on the road then, and I don't think that's a bad thing. Planning trips will be different like I said in the first post, and infrastructure continues to be built to make it easier. I guess I don't understand the opposition to that development. Most of the objection I see are not technically correct, or if they are, they're outdated.
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Feb 28, 2021 17:45:20 GMT
The reason so few chargers in my area is because of the current limitations of electric vehicles. Most of those limitations revolve around temperature. Not surprising for where I live. When it is zero or below, some folks like to run a heater.
When Shaun realized he was in range trouble, he turned off his heater for the last 32 miles. It was -14F that day. He wasn't happy when he got to his parents house.
We bought a Honda Passport last summer. I looked at electric vehicles. My wife wasn't enthralled with the range limitations. I set the price for the electric vehicle 5K higher than the ICE vehicle. There isn't anything available today that comes close to what the Honda had to offer.
I looked at it as a way to reduce operating costs, willing to forsake some things to achieve that end. Being she is the primary driver, I conceded to her wishes. On a trip to Rochester, we drove by a fellow charging his Tesla. He had stocking cap, parka and gloves on sitting in his car. She reminded me of our earlier discussion, bluntly stated there was no way in hawl she would drive in a cold car.
If I lived south of Kansas, I would have bought an electric. I don't, so will continue with ICE.
Another item of interest. Fire. There has been 3 house fires in Fargo this winter from electric vehicles. I would never park an electric vehicle in our garage. Would have to build one at least 100 yards away from house. Electric forklifts are stored/charged at night in hardened rooms in these parts. Insurance coverage requires this.
|
|
|
Post by missouriboy on Feb 28, 2021 17:48:00 GMT
Anyone's guess Missouri, I enjoy watching the classic American car market and love the cars. That period of '64 to '72, just 8 years, spawned a whole distinct genre of automobile which captures emotions pretty much like no other. The market now is driven by collectability, current fashions and availability. 20 years ago a dodge charger was relatively cheap and could be found in scrap yards in ok condition, now they're all snapped up, restored and If you found an unrestored one now, it'd cost you what a restored one would've 20 years ago. They sold millions of mustangs, fastbacks were less common, gts less, shelbys even less and prices reflect that. If tesla do a Ltd edition, that'd probably be the one that gets restored....bog std ones will get crushed. Good to see you back Acid. Plumbing still keeping you hopping?
|
|
|
Post by Ratty on Feb 28, 2021 18:13:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Feb 28, 2021 18:22:19 GMT
Yep
|
|
birder
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 223
|
Post by birder on Feb 28, 2021 18:22:48 GMT
I think if I was going to buy an electric car I'd go for something like a NIO ES8, I like the idea of a battery change of 3 minutes which is as quick as filling up with diesel. www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Feb 28, 2021 19:09:39 GMT
The reason so few chargers in my area is because of the current limitations of electric vehicles. Most of those limitations revolve around temperature. Not surprising for where I live. When it is zero or below, some folks like to run a heater. When Shaun realized he was in range trouble, he turned off his heater for the last 32 miles. It was -14F that day. He wasn't happy when he got to his parents house. We bought a Honda Passport last summer. I looked at electric vehicles. My wife wasn't enthralled with the range limitations. I set the price for the electric vehicle 5K higher than the ICE vehicle. There isn't anything available today that comes close to what the Honda had to offer. I looked at it as a way to reduce operating costs, willing to forsake some things to achieve that end. Being she is the primary driver, I conceded to her wishes. On a trip to Rochester, we drove by a fellow charging his Tesla. He had stocking cap, parka and gloves on sitting in his car. She reminded me of our earlier discussion, bluntly stated there was no way in hawl she would drive in a cold car. If I lived south of Kansas, I would have bought an electric. I don't, so will continue with ICE. Another item of interest. Fire. There has been 3 house fires in Fargo this winter from electric vehicles. I would never park an electric vehicle in our garage. Would have to build one at least 100 yards away from house. Electric forklifts are stored/charged at night in hardened rooms in these parts. Insurance coverage requires this. The Chicken and Egg problem. Chargers have more to do with the number of people travelling through an area than owners in the area, though, with the possible exception of California. I found it interesting that many of your northern neighbors own EVs, and the number is growing: electricautonomy.ca/2020/08/26/canadian-ev-sales-data-q2-2020/#:~:text=According%20to%20EMC%2C%20that%20number,Model%203%2C%20with%206%2C826%20sold. The link I posted earlier in response to range loss in cold weather was also from Canada. Interesting reading on the liklihood of fires: airqualitynews.com/2020/10/09/electric-vehicle-fires-should-we-be-concerned/
|
|
|
Post by sigurdur on Feb 28, 2021 19:28:08 GMT
Note where the vast majority of EV in Canada are. In the warmer areas. I anticipate increased sales where they are practical in both US and Canada. The $7500 tax credit is a large draw.
We need one car, not two. I tried to convince my wife that an electric car is the way to go. She likes to take road trips with friends. Wanted something familiar.
It is as it is. Currently ICE vehicles cost less to drive. A comparable electric car to our Honda was about 80K verses 35K. The cost differential can be invested for a much greater return.
Electric would be great to drive if one doesn't care about return/cost of investment.
Being a bean counting Farmer has gotten ingrained in me.
|
|
|
Post by nonentropic on Feb 28, 2021 20:29:58 GMT
An issue not discusses is the use of EV's in a tunnel. Here in NZ a transport of explosives is excluded from all tunnels.
Petrol and diesel vehicles are permitted not because the energy content is modest its not but modest, but because the oxidizer is not "mixed" with the fuel, this is never discussed with respect to EV's.
The woke will not address this because their story will fade.
|
|
|
Post by acidohm on Feb 28, 2021 20:33:26 GMT
Anyone's guess Missouri, I enjoy watching the classic American car market and love the cars. That period of '64 to '72, just 8 years, spawned a whole distinct genre of automobile which captures emotions pretty much like no other. The market now is driven by collectability, current fashions and availability. 20 years ago a dodge charger was relatively cheap and could be found in scrap yards in ok condition, now they're all snapped up, restored and If you found an unrestored one now, it'd cost you what a restored one would've 20 years ago. They sold millions of mustangs, fastbacks were less common, gts less, shelbys even less and prices reflect that. If tesla do a Ltd edition, that'd probably be the one that gets restored....bog std ones will get crushed. Good to see you back Acid. Plumbing still keeping you hopping? Hi Missouriboy 😊 Yes, after 3 months off and another 3 picking at scraps (I finished an 18 month stint the day after lockdown 1) I got offered an ongoing project where the current plumber wasn't happy, bit of a complicated site but all being well it'll turn into maybe 4 years or more of decent work. Bit involved but I'd be lying if I didn't admit thats kinda how I like it....Good to have something to chew on 😉
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Feb 28, 2021 21:56:30 GMT
An issue not discusses is the use of EV's in a tunnel. Here in NZ a transport of explosives is excluded from all tunnels. Petrol and diesel vehicles are permitted not because the energy content is modest its not but modest, but because the oxidizer is not "mixed" with the fuel, this is never discussed with respect to EV's. The woke will not address this because their story will fade. I'll have to disagree about it not being discussed. In fact, in a few places in the US, tunnels are being discussed for the exclusove use of EVs. Fire is regularly discussed in conjunction with project discussion. However, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about petrol cars since a leak where a fire could start exposes the fuel to a much greater amout of oxidizer. Any such fire tends to expand the size of the leak thus producing a vicious cycle. It seems that the real motivation on this side of the argument is whether the idea being argued against is considered "woke." I don't personally care about that aspect, but a weak argument is a weak argument. Statistically speaking, where is a fire more likely to occur: in an ICE vehicle or an EV? When they occur in either, what is the scope of the fire? Is that difference statistically different?
|
|
|
Post by nonentropic on Feb 28, 2021 22:05:28 GMT
I have little argument with EV cars as such.
How you use a car defines the need and the consequent solution against cost. (not withstanding subsidies to distort the equation)
The argument that they are clean is simply daft on a full cycle basis. If nuclear MSR were the norm then electric vehicles in the city loop will also become the norm.
But to hear "fools" discussing electric trucks and tractor's is childish even if MSR were everywhere.
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Feb 28, 2021 22:31:19 GMT
I have little argument with EV cars as such. How you use a car defines the need and the consequent solution against cost. (not withstanding subsidies to distort the equation) The argument that they are clean is simply daft on a full cycle basis. If nuclear MSR were the norm then electric vehicles in the city loop will also become the norm. But to hear "fools" discussing electric trucks and tractor's is childish even if MSR were everywhere. I agree with the first two sentences. What is the comparison of an ICE vehicle vs. EV on a full cycle basis? Especially if you add in lower density power production from sources like Solar which are becoming more and more of a norm in places like California? (In my last house in California, I had solar on my roof. My house did not sit optimally for solar, but it still reduced my net usage by more than half, for example, and my peak production was during peak demand on the grid). Most times, when I read discussion in this area, it turns into very shaky sets of "facts" to support one argument or the other. I'd like to hear a little less daft discussion in this area. I'd also like to see more of our power production coming from Nuclear MSR, FWIW. Discussion of electric cars was foolish just a couple of decades ago. (I actually remember a joke that Red Skelton told about that back in the 1970s). Now, EVs are reality. I don't think long-haul trucks or tractors are currently a practical application for electric motors, but I also don't know what the future holds. I don't want to limit R&D due to current ideas or technologies. Hydrogen is also not currently practical, for example, but I'm all for continuing to allow it to develop. One last note on the hazard of lithium ion batteries - they're ubiquitous. Almost all of us have several lithium ion batteries in our houses from cell phones to laptops to radios, and flashlights. In my case, my snow blower is also powered by such a battery, although it is probably the most limited such device in our house. I know my laptop and phone travel with me, so they definitely get some rough and tumble, especially my cell phone as my butter-fingers just seem to get worse. Still, we have a remarkably low number of incidents. It doesn't mean there isn't a hazard, of course, but the manufacture of the batteries seems to make it a very rare occurrence.
|
|
|
Post by tobyglyn on Mar 1, 2021 0:22:28 GMT
|
|