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Post by thermostat on Apr 26, 2011 4:45:36 GMT
Well, this is well known in the literature. Amazing of you to question it, but no suprise I guess. I'll dig it out if you insist. You have been asked three times now to provide evidence the stratosphere is cooling. Where is it? Magellan, This data is well known in the literature. Are you saying that you have no way to check that out yourself? Of course, we understand the answer is no; you don't have a clue how to explore the scientific literature. Nothing changes. Stratospheric cooling remains as has been observered. |
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Post by thermostat on Apr 26, 2011 4:52:15 GMT
Well, this is well known in the literature. Amazing of you to question it, but no suprise I guess. I'll dig it out if you insist. You have been asked three times now to provide evidence the stratosphere is cooling. Where is it? Magellan, The short answer is that I have access to the literature when I am online on my academic server at the lab. I'm not on that server right now. |
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Post by sigurdur on Apr 26, 2011 11:02:27 GMT
You have been asked three times now to provide evidence the stratosphere is cooling. Where is it? Magellan, The short answer is that I have access to the literature when I am online on my academic server at the lab. I'm not on that server right now. I can only suggest that when you are at your lab that you open your computer and provide us with credible literature. Thank you once again in advance. |
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Post by codetalker on Apr 26, 2011 18:28:47 GMT
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Post by w7psk on Apr 26, 2011 18:55:41 GMT
That is no stinking LIE Im so sick of this cold wet nasty weather. |
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Post by codetalker on Apr 26, 2011 19:02:39 GMT
There you go "proof" the earth is cooling. Just joking. I must admit I find it fun to listen to you folks parry and thrust. I don't understand 99% of what you talk about but I try. I don't feel certain I believe in AGW but I acknowledge humans can affect the environment. I know humans can affect the weather, we can seed clouds, so perhaps on a small local scale I would think it reasonable. www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html Climate however is big and to affect a global climate .i.e., Asteroid, I am not convinced. Of course I feel badly for both sides of this discourse because I would like to agree with both of you and given my limited knowledge and lack of direct knowledge I have to recluse myself from siding in this debate. I will say I think it reasonable to acknowledge the Sun can affect the climate as much as opening or closing the blinds in my house affect the internal environment of my home. I also think humans can affect the environment, I recall regions I have visited with horrible air quality, so much so, light is blocked by particulates in the atmosphere. Can humans affect change in the environment? Yes. But are those changes long enough to meet the definition of climate? I like the Disney movie WALL-E and wonder are we affecting the environment enough to cause climate change? |
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Post by AstroMet on Apr 27, 2011 5:06:39 GMT
There you go "proof" the earth is cooling. Just joking. I must admit I find it fun to listen to you folks parry and thrust. I don't understand 99% of what you talk about but I try. I don't feel certain I believe in AGW but I acknowledge humans can affect the environment. I know humans can affect the weather, we can seed clouds, so perhaps on a small local scale I would think it reasonable. www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html Climate however is big and to affect a global climate .i.e., Asteroid, I am not convinced. Of course I feel badly for both sides of this discourse because I would like to agree with both of you and given my limited knowledge and lack of direct knowledge I have to recluse myself from siding in this debate. I will say I think it reasonable to acknowledge the Sun can affect the climate as much as opening or closing the blinds in my house affect the internal environment of my home. I also think humans can affect the environment, I recall regions I have visited with horrible air quality, so much so, light is blocked by particulates in the atmosphere. Can humans affect change in the environment? Yes. But are those changes long enough to meet the definition of climate? I like the Disney movie WALL-E and wonder are we affecting the environment enough to cause climate change? Hi Codetalker, I understand what you are saying; however, there is a distinction between the 'environment' as humans have impact and 'planetary climate change." These are not the same. Human beings cannot control the Earth's climate. We cannot stop the jet streams or the ocean patterns, nor can we halt warm and cold pressure systems no more than we can put a lid on the sky to block out the Sun - the driver of all climate on Earth. We can effect changes in our environments and have impact, mainly via pollution, but not to the level of planetary climate change. Human beings cannot cause global warming. That's never happened and never will because all of Earth's climate and resultant weather comes first and foremost from space - ruled by the laws and principles of physics. And it is this distinction that has been purposefully clouded by AGW ideologues who co-opted the environmental movement to their cause of man-made global warming - thus causing extensive damage to the credibility of climate science. What is most disturbing is that those who bought into the lie of man-made climate change do not have the slightest idea how their own local weather is produced, much less that of the Earth's entire climate. Yet, some would charge populations with 'carbon credits,' which is effectively charging you for the very air you exhale. Remember that carbon is natural to the planet Earth and we humans are made of the stuff. We are also made of water, a substance that covers three-fourths of the Earth. Our planet has a highly variable climate system, which I forecast astronomically according to the laws which govern the Earth's natural system. The 'environment' as we know it on Earth is very diverse and I remind people that the majority of the hydrosphere, that is the depths of the world's oceans, remain unexplored. This also rings true for the surface. For instance, hundreds of new islands were recently discovered. Duke University and Meredith College geo-scientists were able to add 657 new barrier islands - 30 percent more to the world's known list. There are now 2,149 discovered islands in total. There's much that remains unknown about our own world's oceans. The climate can easily be forecasted astronomically because without the motions of the Sun, the Moon and planets we would not have weather, or even time itself, since all is based on the revolutions of the celestial bodies, including that of the Earth itself. Everything is always in constant motion, like the weather and this is the reason for variable mathematics, invented by astrologers. Our climate is directly forced by the primer driver and that is the Sun. Anyone who even thinks to challenge this fact does not have both oars in the water because without the Sun there would be no life on Earth. It is the idiocy of our times to actually hear people regulate the Sun to some kind of 'minor' influence - as if it is some kind of insignificant yellow dot in the daytime skies. This proves just how little they know about their own world and its climate. If you look to some people, say under the age of 33, who've been propagandized and brainwashed during the decades of the 1990s and 2000s with man-made global warming as schoolchildren and students, then you will observe that most believe in something that could never happen on Earth. In the words of Yoda, they have to "unlearn what they have learned." Thankfully, the age of 'climate change for dummies' is gratefully coming to an end, though you will continue to hear of bozos who pontificate man-made global warming along with their associate fuzzy math to force onto the unsuspecting public something that is mathematically impossible to ever occur on Earth. The truth is that the Earth's climate is always changing - that is what variability means - and the fact that we have people claiming that humans are the cause of climate change only goes to prove just how far IQ levels have fallen over the last 30 years. Will it change? Yes, I believe that it will. In the end, science comes to accept that which is self-evident. As we see more and more of these corrupt ideologists out of the establishment from A to Z - then we will see the return to something which has been missing for a long time now - and that is common sense. |
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Post by AstroMet on Apr 27, 2011 6:48:08 GMT
Another one for you, Astromet... Seems the all-time monthly rain record in our area was set in January 1937, and we are on pace to break that. If my calculations are correct, that was 74 years ago. 74/2=37 years, so that would put the standing record very close on the time line of the last great warming phase as where we are now in the current warming phase. If that is so, then we have more proof. Here is the article local news article listing the record rainfall totals: www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/april-rainfall-record-set-heavy-rain-expected-1144732.htmlHi Handyman, It's a major snow-melt season. Along with the cold wet spring here in the states, along with the recent lunar perigee, we have flooding. The Midwest is hurting as are farmers along northern states. See - > news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_severe_weather |
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Post by handyman on Apr 28, 2011 3:34:57 GMT
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Post by AstroMet on Apr 28, 2011 6:03:00 GMT
Yes it does. We are still in a La Niña climate, even as values wane, so the storms are not a surprise. In Huntsville, meteorologists found themselves in danger of being struck by a tornado and had to evacuate the National Weather Service office there in Alabama. It's been deadly out there and our prayers should be with the people who are suffering. According to Live Science Wire, the recent deadly storms are fueled by a waning La Niña - "For the second day in a row, deadly storms hammered Arkansas and the rest of the South. A lingering La Niña pattern may be behind the steady march of storms across the region in recent days.
Monday's storms killed 10 people in Arkansas and another round of storms on Tuesday killed another person.
The bad weather spilled into the rest of Dixie Alley and four people were killed in Mississippi over the past two days.
The latest round of intense storms are unloading today (April 27) on Arkansas as the storm system slowly marches eastward, during what is a potentially record-breaking month for tornadoes.
"Fortunately, it does look like the last round for a couple of days," said Chris Buonanno, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Little Rock, Ark.
Across the country, this spring's severe weather seems to be rapidly reloading between storms.
That could be due to a La Niña pattern that has persisted over the last few months, said Grady Dixon, a climatologist and meteorologist at Mississippi State University in Starkville.
This opposite phase of El Niño features abnormally cool equatorial waters in the central Pacific Ocean.
Along with creating dry weather in the Southwest and contributing to the historic wildfires in Texas, La Niña tends to guide the jet stream north through the Pacific Northwest and Great Lakes, trapping cold air on the northern side and the warm, humid air needed for thunderstorms on the southern side.
That means that the South stays wet because cold fronts that would normally dry out the atmosphere are blocked, Dixon said.
So the hits keep coming, one after the other as the storm slowly moves east.
In Arkansas, a cold frontal boundary should sweep through today (April 27), drying out the atmosphere and stopping the storms for a time, Buonanno told OurAmazingPlanet.
Not all La Niña events are associated with highly active severe weather seasons, Dixon said, but some years with similar La Niña characteristics are also historic tornado years, including 1974, 1999 which saw an EF-5 tornado devastate Moore, Okla., and 2008.
(The EF5 tornado is in the strongest category of the Enhanced Fujita Scale, with winds of over 200 mph.) [The Tornado Damage Scale in Images]
When all the damage is analyzed, April 2011 could set a record for the number of tornadoes in the month.
April has also had a spike in killer tornadoes. The tornado season is only two months old, but the death toll from this year's tornadoes — 45 as of April 25 — has already matched the death toll from all of last year, but is well below that of other historic tornado years."
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Post by handyman on Apr 28, 2011 14:31:53 GMT
Not all La Niña events are associated with highly active severe weather seasons, Dixon said, but some years with similar La Niña characteristics are also historic tornado years, including 1974, 1999 which saw an EF-5 tornado devastate Moore, Okla., and 2008. I got to witness first-hand the April 3, 1974 tornado that destroyed most of Xenia, OH. Was a fortunate one - it missed our home. The destruction was incredible. As I recall, they were considering adding an F6 classification for it, but of course, did not. Interestingly, another tornado ripped through Xenia again in 1999, taking nearly the same path. I'm looking into the one that hit Tuscaloosa, sounds similar to the 1999 Xenia tornado. |
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Post by bsattu on Apr 28, 2011 15:45:18 GMT
Its was just said on the news that the wind speed was 283mph. I am not sure how they measured the speed or if that was a gust speed, it wasn't said. I have seen that there was a strong La Nina in the 1973 time frame and lasted until 1976 wavering from strong in 1973 to weak in 1974-1975 season and back to strong in 1975-1976 season. Wasn't that the time they thought global cooling was happening?
It seems (no science fact) that cooler season make weather worse. Does anyone have a thought as to why this would be?
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Post by throttleup on Apr 28, 2011 16:17:44 GMT
Its was just said on the news that the wind speed was 283mph. I am not sure how they measured the speed or if that was a gust speed, it wasn't said. I have seen that there was a strong La Nina in the 1973 time frame and lasted until 1976 wavering from strong in 1973 to weak in 1974-1975 season and back to strong in 1975-1976 season. Wasn't that the time they thought global cooling was happening? It seems (no science fact) that cooler season make weather worse. Does anyone have a thought as to why this would be? bsattu, I'm sure others here could state the reasons more succinctly than I, but I'll take a crack at it (from what little I understand): If the world was all one warm, balmy termperature such violent storms wouldn't happen (a benefit of global warming?). But I suppose if it were all one cold temperature the same benefit could be had. This time of year the lower latitudes are warming up. When that warm, moist air meets cold air it will produce violent weather. So I think you are correct in that when we have large amounts of cold air from the north this time of year to clash with the warm, moist air it results in large amounts of violent weather as the temperature differential pushes the warm, moist air up into the atmosphere to condense into large storm systems. Or, it could just be global warming./s |
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Post by AstroMet on Apr 28, 2011 20:22:18 GMT
Its was just said on the news that the wind speed was 283mph. I am not sure how they measured the speed or if that was a gust speed, it wasn't said. I have seen that there was a strong La Nina in the 1973 time frame and lasted until 1976 wavering from strong in 1973 to weak in 1974-1975 season and back to strong in 1975-1976 season. Wasn't that the time they thought global cooling was happening? It seems (no science fact) that cooler season make weather worse. Does anyone have a thought as to why this would be? First our prayers for those who have lost lives and property in these fierce storms and tornadoes. One of the reasons why we need to focus more on climate is to help people to build and live in regions susceptible to these storms - especially tornadoes. One of the reasons why cooling is worse than warming is the fact that our atmosphere is water-fueled and highly variable, so that any cold pressure systems meeting up with warm flows produce very violent storms like tornadoes. The April 2011 storm system will be a record-setter. The massive tornadoes tore a streak across the U.S. South, killing at least 269 people in six states. A tornado in Oklahoma said it appears some of the tornadoes were as wide as a mile and likely packed a wallop that only 1 in 100 twisters ever reach. Two of Alabama's major cities were among the places devastated by the deadliest twister outbreak in nearly 40 years. Some the twisters were indeed a mile wide, on the ground for tens of miles and had winds speeds over 200 mph. It spread destruction from Texas to New York, where dozens of roads were flooded or washed out. Alabama officials confirmed 180 deaths, while there were 33 in Mississippi, 33 in Tennessee, 14 in Georgia, eight in Virginia and one in Kentucky. Some neighborhoods have been wiped off maps by the twisters. The governors of Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia issued emergency declarations for their states while the National Weather Service said the deaths were the most since the tornado outbreak that killed 315 people in 1974. The combination of typical and sometimes stagnant jet stream patterns close on the heels of cold pressure systems meeting warmer air is the cause. Cooler air meeting warm air is always a recipe for fierce storms. One of the reasons why I forecasted that this La Nina is odd, is because of the astronomic signals associated with this climate event. At this time, even though La Nina is expected to wane, we hear this from the Australia BOM - "However, atmospheric indicators of ENSO continue to be at odds with recent trends in the ocean, and remain consistent with a well developed La Niña event.
The latest 30-day Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) value (+30.2) is only a little short of the highest April monthly value on record (+31.7, recorded in 1904), and has remained consistently high throughout the event.
Cloudiness near the date-line remains below normal while trade winds continue to be stronger than normal. These atmospheric indicators are expected to return to neutral over the coming months in response to the changes in the ocean."Storms such as these in the American South come also on the heels of a climate transition. We are on the downward phase of global warming with six (6) years left while global cooling creeps closer for the world's climate. I expect this climate transition to bring about more extremes of weather. We should see and experience between 2011-2017 some of the most diverse and wild world weather in this transition with temperature extremes, strong storms, floods and droughts just as we officially reach the start of global cooling by 2017. |
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Post by AstroMet on Apr 28, 2011 20:49:25 GMT
Not all La Niña events are associated with highly active severe weather seasons, Dixon said, but some years with similar La Niña characteristics are also historic tornado years, including 1974, 1999 which saw an EF-5 tornado devastate Moore, Okla., and 2008. I got to witness first-hand the April 3, 1974 tornado that destroyed most of Xenia, OH. Was a fortunate one - it missed our home. The destruction was incredible. As I recall, they were considering adding an F6 classification for it, but of course, did not. Interestingly, another tornado ripped through Xenia again in 1999, taking nearly the same path. I'm looking into the one that hit Tuscaloosa, sounds similar to the 1999 Xenia tornado. Handyman, that April 1974 event in Ohio was huge and you witnessed and survived it? That is saying something. You were quite fortunate as people still talk about that event from the mid-1970s. I've chased a few tornadoes in my reporting years and can tell you that there's nothing more frightening than facing a tornado - especially tornadoes that rage at night. |
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