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Post by glennkoks on Dec 3, 2014 19:16:24 GMT
Glennkoks, where are you buying your food? Website? Locally? The dried meals sold anywhere I've checked are ridiculously priced. Missouriboy, check out diatomaceous earth, pharmaceutical grade to store beans and other grains. It's what they put in Bisquick to keep the worms out, has other uses too. Magellan, You can order online via the LDS website at: www.lds.org/topics/food-storage?lang=engOr if you live near one of their centers you can purchase directly and save the shipping. It seems a case (6) of the #10 cans of oats is currently 24.00 or 4.00 a can with a shelf life of 30+ years. Or you can buy local and pack yourself. I chose the convenience of the cans. Once again I am not a member of the LDS (Mormon) church but I do know there is a wealth of information on their websites on self reliance.
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Post by AstroMet on Dec 8, 2014 0:46:19 GMT
Without a volcanic eruption of Biblical proportions, it is physically impossible to cool as rapidly and as much as Astromet indicates. Just like a large ship, inertia doesn't change direction that fast. Do I think we are going to cool? Yes. I think Astromet is generally correct. I kept saying that there would be no 'Super El Nino' this year when nearly every major climate center and many 'forecasters' were calling on for one. Just before spring, all through spring 2014, and into summer, I continued to counter (and try to educate) those who loudly proclaimed that there was going to be an ENSO. I said there would be no ENSO. They all busted - and very badly - despite the media blitz along with their idiotic claims of 'man-made global warming.' But they will not learn how to actually forecast and ENSO because the definition of insanity is to continue to do the same wrong thing time and again while expecting a different result. For more, see ->> www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/11/06/el_ni_o_prediction_2014_why_weather_forecasters_were_wrong_about_a_super.html
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Post by nautonnier on Dec 8, 2014 16:45:07 GMT
Frosts starting in early September, wind and heavy snow from mid-October through March, persistent night frosts through till mid-May, wet cool June to August; yep great things with no fruit, no hay for cattle feed. Careful what you wish for
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Post by acidohm on Dec 8, 2014 18:45:46 GMT
my rational mind tells me I have to choose the most likely scenario There was a time when the most rational consensus was that to sail out to sea and not turn back would mean falling off the edge of the earth....before the 60's plate tectonics were not an established theory...etc etc
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Post by AstroMet on Dec 8, 2014 23:50:51 GMT
Without a volcanic eruption of Biblical proportions, it is physically impossible to cool as rapidly and as much as Astromet indicates. Just like a large ship, inertia doesn't change direction that fast. Do I think we are going to cool? Yes. I think Astromet is generally correct. Do I think we are going to cool? No, I don't, I believe in AGW. Astro I appreciate all the work you do, and no offense, but my rational mind tells me I have to choose the most likely scenario and the rational reason I believe in AGW is so many scientists tell me it's real, so I believe, and if they are wrong I wouldn't be sad with a little bit of cooling. Here in PNW cold winters do great things. Code, I have no idea if you are trying to be funny in your comments, but if you are, then there's nothing 'rational' about what you said. There is no such thing as 'man-made global warming,' and if you are choosing to ignore all the multiple signs of cooling worldwide, then you're not being rational in the least, but irrational. In forecasting ENSO, as well as many climate and weather events, I perform serious forecast work, and for you to say such a thing is really astounding. This is nothing 'likely' in the scenario you said Code, as it simply will not happen.
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Post by glennkoks on Dec 9, 2014 2:35:48 GMT
Without a volcanic eruption of Biblical proportions, it is physically impossible to cool as rapidly and as much as Astromet indicates. Just like a large ship, inertia doesn't change direction that fast. Do I think we are going to cool? Yes. I think Astromet is generally correct. Do I think we are going to cool? No, I don't, I believe in AGW. Astro I appreciate all the work you do, and no offense, but my rational mind tells me I have to choose the most likely scenario and the rational reason I believe in AGW is so many scientists tell me it's real, so I believe, and if they are wrong I wouldn't be sad with a little bit of cooling. Here in PNW cold winters do great things. Do I think we are going to cool? Great question. But I believe the same things that have driven our climate for millions and millions of years will certainly continue to do so. I've been accused of "drinking the cool aid", "sitting on the fence" and "denying". But I do believe that events like: Ice Ages Bond events Younger Dryas MWA LIA Will Continue. Regardless of CO2
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Post by nonentropic on Dec 9, 2014 8:00:04 GMT
The reality is that we know that there are climate drivers observed in the past. what is debated is whether the addition of a new one, us, with our combustion is material. further, if its material, is it catastrophic?
Catastrophic would be driven by positive feedback's that take the planet to some other temperature norm.
my view is very straight forward, most thermal and atmospheric mixtures have already existed in the very long past of planet earth and the world is flourishing, so the feedback's restrain some sort of thermal runaway and secondly the climatic fluctuations seem to be hard to measurably separate from LIA rebounds and purported climate change driven by Mankind so the magnitude is currently very small and will likely remain to be small.
great subject for the world to worry about but tragic for the poor that so much poverty will be entrenched to entertain these zealots.
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Post by AstroMet on Dec 9, 2014 8:16:10 GMT
The reality is that we know that there are climate drivers observed in the past. what is debated is whether the addition of a new one, us, with our combustion is material. further, if its material, is it catastrophic? Catastrophic would be driven by positive feedback's that take the planet to some other temperature norm. my view is very straight forward, most thermal and atmospheric mixtures have already existed in the very long past of planet earth and the world is flourishing, so the feedback's restrain some sort of thermal runaway and secondly the climatic fluctuations seem to be hard to measurably separate from LIA rebounds and purported climate change driven by Mankind so the magnitude is currently very small and will likely remain to be small. great subject for the world to worry about but tragic for the poor that so much poverty will be entrenched to entertain these zealots. The real problem is that conventional climate science, already being quite young and inexperienced, took a wrong left turn with the entry into climate science of an ideological generation that "knew it all," but obviously did not even subscribe to the basics. The fact that they mistook computer model technology for the 'holy grail,' rather than learning how to actually forecast climate and weather events speaks volumes on why the field is in such a mess today. Witness the recent 'Super El Nino,' scares of this year and just how certain many were right to the end when it was clear that there was no El Nino on the way. This is the same thing that is happening in ignorance of real world observations that show the Earth trending to global cooling - yet some remain in denial. Ideological 'man-made global warming,' along with 'chemtrails' in attempts to 'cool' the Earth are clearly signs of narcissism and idiocy that will have dire consequences as solar-forced global cooling sets in. There will be all kinds of excuses as to why so many did not see it coming, or failed to want to see it coming, but it has been forecasted and those in denial will have to live with their choices. Those are the hard facts of life when in denial. In the final analysis, until NOAA, NASA and other climate centers rid themselves of the careerist, ideological workers they have, climate science will continue to head in the direction it has been going for far too long - and that is backward. The whole point of Science is the ability to predict, which the current crop in these climate science centers constantly fail to do.
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Post by walnut on Dec 9, 2014 15:09:13 GMT
AGW was a politically motivated lie. The opportunists co-opted the natural (but temporary) warming that we experienced during the last active solar cycles for their own ideological purposes.
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Post by walnut on Dec 9, 2014 18:15:45 GMT
Code, you have stated you position well, and since I think you said it plainly and honestly this is now easy to debate-
I understand your point, Theo makes a case, but other "experts" who are accredited by academia, the government, or the media also make a different case. What is a layman like you or me to think?
What is fascinating is that the AGW crowd is lying. It is the biggest lie of our times. The premise of your position is that you believe what you have read. I propose that you have been lied to.
Which "side" is trying to take your money and redistribute it to more deserving people, and which side is simply recommending that you prepare in case the climate changes cooler, but is asking nothing from you (at the point of a gun)?
The burden of proof is still on the side that is trying to take money from you. You know, those same people who were caught trying to rig the data, and who were caught discussing the need to "hide the decline".
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Post by scpg02 on Dec 10, 2014 0:39:35 GMT
Code, I have no idea if you are trying to be funny in your comments, but if you are, then there's nothing 'rational' about what you said. There is no such thing as 'man-made global warming,' and if you are choosing to ignore all the multiple signs of cooling worldwide, then you're not being rational in the least, but irrational. In forecasting ENSO, as well as many climate and weather events, I perform serious forecast work, and for you to say such a thing is really astounding. This is nothing 'likely' in the scenario you said Code, as it simply will not happen. Astro, Hey before I answer I want to wish you a Happy Holidays and Best Wishes to you and your family! I would invite you over for food and drinks if you were a couple hundred miles closer.
No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm serious. Please understand my understanding of weather is primitive. www.google.com/search?q=Harrison+Hot+Springs+Resort+%26+Spa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8If you go to that link on the right side of the page you will see the words "See inside" above the words Harrison Hot Springs Resort & Spa. When you click on "See Inside" you can pan around the lobby of the Hotel, do so and look for a black board and then zoom in till you see in the bottom right hand corner of a blackboard with the words "Weather See Outside" and an arrow directing your gaze outside. That is the extent of my forecasting ability. I look outside! Honest to God Theo I respect what you do and I've learned some things from you but yeah, I believe in AGW. But have faith all is not lost for example from you I've come to believe the Sun actually exists and is the primary driver of the Earth's climate. For example this old article from Discover discovermagazine.com/1992/nov/whatdrivesclimat148points to C02 as the driver of climate. Back then in 1992 when it was written I would have bought it hook,line and sinker but today I know the Sun drive the climate. The article is bullshit, if the sun was gone and the Earth had a layer of C02 a billion times greater than it has today it would still be an ice cold rock without the sun. Point learned...the SUN drives Earth's climate. Which leads me to question does C02 influence the climate? I don't have a clue, so I rely on others to tell me, and my statement was not meant to insult or challenge, heaven forbid, I want to avoid conflict. I take things at face value and if the news tells me the stock market went up I believe it went up. Everyday I hear the Earth is warming, the Earth is warming, and C02 is doing it so I believe. I won't ask you to explain as I know all to well you've posted over and over and over your position. How about someone else? I get where you are coming from and I would be right there with you except I have seen first hand how the experts bend science to fit a personal agenda. I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. And no I don't think it is a conspiracy. I think they are all idealist's with the same political leanings. Like political bias in the press, it skews the results.
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 10, 2014 16:52:27 GMT
Code, I have no idea if you are trying to be funny in your comments, but if you are, then there's nothing 'rational' about what you said. There is no such thing as 'man-made global warming,' and if you are choosing to ignore all the multiple signs of cooling worldwide, then you're not being rational in the least, but irrational. In forecasting ENSO, as well as many climate and weather events, I perform serious forecast work, and for you to say such a thing is really astounding. This is nothing 'likely' in the scenario you said Code, as it simply will not happen. Astro, Hey before I answer I want to wish you a Happy Holidays and Best Wishes to you and your family! I would invite you over for food and drinks if you were a couple hundred miles closer.
No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm serious. Please understand my understanding of weather is primitive. www.google.com/search?q=Harrison+Hot+Springs+Resort+%26+Spa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8If you go to that link on the right side of the page you will see the words "See inside" above the words Harrison Hot Springs Resort & Spa. When you click on "See Inside" you can pan around the lobby of the Hotel, do so and look for a black board and then zoom in till you see in the bottom right hand corner of a blackboard with the words "Weather See Outside" and an arrow directing your gaze outside. That is the extent of my forecasting ability. I look outside! Honest to God Theo I respect what you do and I've learned some things from you but yeah, I believe in AGW. But have faith all is not lost for example from you I've come to believe the Sun actually exists and is the primary driver of the Earth's climate. For example this old article from Discover discovermagazine.com/1992/nov/whatdrivesclimat148points to C02 as the driver of climate. Back then in 1992 when it was written I would have bought it hook,line and sinker but today I know the Sun drive the climate. The article is bullshit, if the sun was gone and the Earth had a layer of C02 a billion times greater than it has today it would still be an ice cold rock without the sun. Point learned...the SUN drives Earth's climate. Which leads me to question does C02 influence the climate? I don't have a clue, so I rely on others to tell me, and my statement was not meant to insult or challenge, heaven forbid, I want to avoid conflict. I take things at face value and if the news tells me the stock market went up I believe it went up. Everyday I hear the Earth is warming, the Earth is warming, and C02 is doing it so I believe. I won't ask you to explain as I know all to well you've posted over and over and over your position. How about someone else? Code: As you know, it is a complicated combination of a lot of things. The sun is of course the main driver. But one also has to understand long term implications of being in an inter-glacial. Ocean currents etc........etc............offfffffffta...........etc.
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Post by walnut on Dec 10, 2014 17:11:19 GMT
Actually I think that AGW is something of a conspiracy, with a large following of fools who are not really in on the scam, but who are attracted to the narrative (fossil fuels are evil, corporations are evil, US history is evil, progress has to come at the cost of the environment and poor people). Astro, Hey before I answer I want to wish you a Happy Holidays and Best Wishes to you and your family! I would invite you over for food and drinks if you were a couple hundred miles closer.
No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm serious. Please understand my understanding of weather is primitive. www.google.com/search?q=Harrison+Hot+Springs+Resort+%26+Spa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8If you go to that link on the right side of the page you will see the words "See inside" above the words Harrison Hot Springs Resort & Spa. When you click on "See Inside" you can pan around the lobby of the Hotel, do so and look for a black board and then zoom in till you see in the bottom right hand corner of a blackboard with the words "Weather See Outside" and an arrow directing your gaze outside. That is the extent of my forecasting ability. I look outside! Honest to God Theo I respect what you do and I've learned some things from you but yeah, I believe in AGW. But have faith all is not lost for example from you I've come to believe the Sun actually exists and is the primary driver of the Earth's climate. For example this old article from Discover discovermagazine.com/1992/nov/whatdrivesclimat148points to C02 as the driver of climate. Back then in 1992 when it was written I would have bought it hook,line and sinker but today I know the Sun drive the climate. The article is bullshit, if the sun was gone and the Earth had a layer of C02 a billion times greater than it has today it would still be an ice cold rock without the sun. Point learned...the SUN drives Earth's climate. Which leads me to question does C02 influence the climate? I don't have a clue, so I rely on others to tell me, and my statement was not meant to insult or challenge, heaven forbid, I want to avoid conflict. I take things at face value and if the news tells me the stock market went up I believe it went up. Everyday I hear the Earth is warming, the Earth is warming, and C02 is doing it so I believe. I won't ask you to explain as I know all to well you've posted over and over and over your position. How about someone else? I get where you are coming from and I would be right there with you except I have seen first hand how the experts bend science to fit a personal agenda. I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. And no I don't think it is a conspiracy. I think they are all idealist's with the same political leanings. Like political bias in the press, it skews the results.
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Post by nonentropic on Dec 10, 2014 18:06:32 GMT
One thing we can all agree on is that within 3 years we will be able to largely conclude ho was right.
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Post by sigurdur on Dec 10, 2014 19:18:31 GMT
"BIG NEWS UPDATE at 10:15 AM Wednesday: At 10 AM, Seattle-Tacoma Airport reported 65F, the WARMEST TEMPERATURE EVER OBSERVED AT SEA-TAC FOR THE MONTH OF DECEMBER. I repeat this is the warmest temperature every reported for any day in December in the entire climatological record. Amazing. Undoubtedly true of other Northwest sites as well." cliffmass.blogspot.com/And it felt damn good didn't it?
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