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Post by msphar on Apr 10, 2009 2:42:42 GMT
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Post by Pooh on Apr 10, 2009 16:15:50 GMT
His policy recommendations included a slide on a carbon tax and 100% dividend .... He spoke against Cap and Trade as ineffective ....He didn't explain how society's use of energy will change if the taxes people pay on carbon are given right back to them. ... My eyeball guess was that 70% of the audience were well in to retirement.... Tax revenues need not be returned to the people that paid them. They can be used to redistribute assets (Share The Wealth / Income Redistribution) under control of politicians. (Bread and circuses worked for a while under the Caesars of Rome , until was sacked.) But Hansen's alternative lacks one important feature: it does not reward the financiers and speculators that supported the current president, nor Al Gore's Cap-And-Trade fund. It will not be called "Tax". The wordsmiths in the 8 th or 9 th circle of the White House basement will come up with a well-intentioned phrase.
See: The Politics of “AGW” Reply #1, 10/28/08solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=globalwarming&action=display&thread=192"The ... President will have no problem keeping his pledge not to raise Income Taxes. Trillions of dollars will come in through Turnover Taxes, lots of wealth to share. Unfortunately, no one can do anything without energy. Economical alternatives are in the remote future. Everyone will pay the Turnover Tax, whatever its name. Some will get a bit back under “Share The Wealth”, but the Price of that will be everyone’s Liberty, just as it was in the Soviet Union."
As to retirement dates of the audience, note that the majority of his conclusions predict consequences after Hansen's likely retirement or have nebulous timing/event: 1. ...ice free arctic in 10 or 20 years. 2. ... 1 meter rise in sea levels by the end of the century. 3. ... a weak El Nino in the coming year. 4. CO2 (resident) for 1,000 years. 5. ... will cause desertification. 6. ... additional warming is in the pipeline... 7. ... a (one or more) new temperature record (somewhere) in the next year or two. |
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Post by heatsink on Apr 10, 2009 18:44:30 GMT
Tax revenues need not be returned to the people that paid them. They can be used to redistribute assets (Share The Wealth / Income Redistribution) under control of politicians. (Bread and circuses worked for a while under Roman Caesars, until was sacked.) But Hansen's alternative lacks one important feature: it does not reward the financiers and speculators that supported the current president, nor Al Gore's Cap-And-Trade fund. It will not be called "Tax". The wordsmiths in the 8 th or 9 th circle of the White House basement will come up with a well-intentioned phrase.
See: The Politics of “AGW” Reply #1, 10/28/08solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=globalwarming&action=display&thread=192"The ... President will have no problem keeping his pledge not to raise Income Taxes. Trillions of dollars will come in through Turnover Taxes, lots of wealth to share. Unfortunately, no one can do anything without energy. Economical alternatives are in the remote future. Everyone will pay the Turnover Tax, whatever its name. Some will get a bit back under “Share The Wealth”, but the Price of that will be everyone’s Liberty, just as it was in the Soviet Union."
I found Jim's policy recommendations the most boring. As you point out they are particularly unrealistic. I would add that 100% dividend is impossible since costs to run the program would have to be taken out. At best government could return 98% of the money raised with more realistic expectations would be inthe 80-85% range. His assertion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions amount to 2/ppm was new to me. Is there any evidence to backup or refute this claim? |
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Post by Pooh on Apr 10, 2009 20:46:40 GMT
I found Jim's policy recommendations the most boring. As you point out they are particularly unrealistic. I would add that 100% dividend is impossible since costs to run the program would have to be taken out. At best government could return 98% of the money raised with more realistic expectations would be in the 80-85% range. Consider whether an 80-85% or any return is Obama's actual plan. - He has already borrowed and spent $??$ trillion rewarding / saving his supporters / patrons.
- He is on record supporting "Spread The Wealth", a.k.a. income redistribution (a characteristic of Socialism).
- Many institutions are told the "bailout" is an offer they can not refuse.
- His "bailout" policy includes (surprise!) governance of private institutions (a characteristic of Fascism).
- His borrowing is an obligation that approaches 1 year of U.S. GDP.
- Even if CO2 is shown to be an insignificant influence on climate (AGW), the debt alone will be used to justify continued taxation.
- Debt is a form of servitude.
Beats the fire out of me, the same for any of his claims! |
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Post by dopeydog on Apr 22, 2009 14:29:37 GMT
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Post by dopeydog on Apr 22, 2009 19:24:23 GMT
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Post by kiwistonewall on Apr 22, 2009 20:51:33 GMT
Hansens's own words: www.giss.nasa.gov/staff/jhansen.html"One of my research interests is radiative transfer in planetary atmospheres, especially interpreting remote sounding of the earth's atmosphere and surface from satellites. Such data, appropriately analyzed, may provide one of our most effective ways to monitor and study global change on the earth. The hardest part is trying to influence the nature of the measurements obtained, so that the key information can be obtained. The mind boggles. Does he realise what he is saying? ;D |
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Post by nautonnier on Apr 23, 2009 0:19:44 GMT
Hansens's own words: www.giss.nasa.gov/staff/jhansen.html"One of my research interests is radiative transfer in planetary atmospheres, especially interpreting remote sounding of the earth's atmosphere and surface from satellites. Such data, appropriately analyzed, may provide one of our most effective ways to monitor and study global change on the earth. The hardest part is trying to influence the nature of the measurements obtained, so that the key information can be obtained. The mind boggles. Does he realise what he is saying? ;D I think you are right - 'obtained' should read 'generated' - must have been a proof reading slip. |
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Post by dopeydog on Apr 24, 2009 15:23:44 GMT
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Post by dopeydog on Apr 24, 2009 17:45:08 GMT
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Post by dopeydog on Apr 24, 2009 18:11:03 GMT
This is really good: www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6531From the article: Carter says Hansenism is more dangerous than Lysenkoism. This was ideological control of genetics by Trofim Lysenko, Director of the Institute of Genetics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which evolved around four main themes Carter identifies as follows: # A necessity to demonstrate the practical relevance of science to the needs of society; # The amassing of evidence to show the “correctness” of the concept as a substitute for causal proof; # Noble cause corruption, whereby data are manipulated to support a cause which is seen as a higher truth; and # Ideological zeal, such the dissidents are silenced as “enemies of the truth”. |
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Post by jimg on Apr 25, 2009 3:52:47 GMT
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Post by poitsplace on Apr 25, 2009 10:27:37 GMT
Indeed, Al Gore could potentially make more than the oil companies from those nonsensical carbon credits. But of course, he's got no motivation to lie about it...I mean aside from the tens of billions of dollars (or more) he could make. |
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Post by curiousgeorge on Apr 26, 2009 1:28:26 GMT
Indeed, Al Gore could potentially make more than the oil companies from those nonsensical carbon credits. But of course, he's got no motivation to lie about it...I mean aside from the tens of billions of dollars (or more) he could make. Watching Big Al's testimony the other day reminded me of one of the closing lines in an old black and white movie (Dr. Strangelove) : "Mr. President, we cannot allow a mine shaft ( carbon credit ) gap!" Followed by visuals of nukes going off and a nice tune: "We'll meeeet again, don't know where, don't know when, but I know we'll meet again some sunnyyyy dayyyyy." Fade to black. ;D Hansen would be perfect in the title role, and Al as Buck Turgeson. If you've never seen the movie, you should: www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=425464A64965C2BF&search_query=dr.+strangelove |
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Post by dopeydog on May 15, 2009 14:20:56 GMT
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