|
Post by numerouno on Jun 23, 2013 22:31:32 GMT
A combination of both Numerouno? It is not surprising that temp records have been broken in the month of May in your area. If you had not experienced a gradual warming, now that would be surprising! And Sigurdur if you look closer at the Norwegian records, the most of the broken ones are in fact recent records, the ones from 1930s are very much in the minority.
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Jun 23, 2013 22:55:43 GMT
You have a reference concluding cherry tree flowering times have been strongly influenced by the urban heat island effect. Actually the onus is on you to demonstrate the scatter plotj you posted is not affected by UHI since that is your inference. P.S. It would be nice if you used the quote function properly so when others use it, the post isn't garbled.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 23, 2013 23:25:45 GMT
[quote source="/post/91290/thread" You have a reference concluding cherry tree flowering times have been strongly influenced by the urban heat island effect. Actually the onus is on you to demonstrate the scatter plotj you posted is not affected by UHI since that is your inference. And you have a poor knowledge of biology: the tree growing in Finland (prunus avium) is the bird cherry tree. (Most call it a tree although it is as often a shrub). It's a ubiquitous tree growing on moist soil in somewhat sheltered locations, alone or in small groups. This tree has got nothing to do with the cultivated cherry variant found in warmer climes. www.treesforlife.org.uk/forest/species/bird_cherry.html
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Jun 24, 2013 0:19:40 GMT
[quote source="/post/91290/thread" You have a reference concluding cherry tree flowering times have been strongly influenced by the urban heat island effect. Actually the onus is on you to demonstrate the scatter plotj you posted is not affected by UHI since that is your inference. And you have a poor knowledge of biology: the tree growing in Finland (prunus avium) is the bird cherry tree. (Most call it a tree although it is as often a shrub). It's a ubiquitous tree growing on moist soil in somewhat sheltered locations, alone or in small groups. This tree has got nothing to do with the cultivated cherry variant found in warmer climes. www.treesforlife.org.uk/forest/species/bird_cherry.htmlFinland has a cooling trend for at least 10 years. The majority of data sets I retrieved from GISS stations in Finland are flat back to 1990, and verified with satellite. That is the bottom line. This all started with you posting three bogus smoothed trend lines making it appear Finland had an accelerating warming trend after 1990. That is due to the smoothing method employed, which the low information observer wouldn't notice. I've already proven the point. This is no different than the fairy tales about glacier melt designed to deceive the casual observer into thinking glaciers started melting only recently. You are a disingenuous schmuck.
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Jun 24, 2013 3:32:19 GMT
If you need more scientific papers to quote from, related to the Finnish climate, just ask. Magellan, I see you are gaining interest in Finland. So, at what date in which year was the new all-time high temp in Finland recorded? The winter of which year had the least number of daily ice reports issued by the FMI? Reading the snippets in your linked paper, it is only referring to the last 160 years (post LIA) of temperature records and the corresponding "long term" trend. It contains nothing about whether the trend has slowed or reversed in recent decades. It was quite simple to prove it has. However, since you're convinced Finland is in a period of "unprecedented" warming, it should be noted as is the rest of globe, Finland and the surrounding region is in a long terming cooling trend over the past 2000 years. There is nothing unusual or outside of natural variation in the CWP. There is zero direct evidence CO2 has anything to do with it. Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world And here: www.uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.phpDespite denialist clap trap about the sun not being attributed to the current warming (IPCC L&F junk science), more and more scientists are discovering the sun is central to global warming post LIA, and in particular the last 30 years. There is no direct evidence CO2 had anything to do with it. Paper shows solar activity at end of 20th century was the highest in 1200 years Google Earth is a useful tool to highlight many of the station locations in Finland are right in the middle of a sprawling urban heat sink. You have to believe the landscape hasn't changed for the past 100 years to quote "record" temperatures. Reading the following is about as laughable as Met O. Same crap, different group of government employees sucking off the taxpayers. ilmasto-opas.fi/en/ilmastonmuutos/suomen-muuttuva-ilmasto/-/artikkeli/dfe79a73-08ea-4686-8463-811b87f53e44/lampotilat-kohoavat.html
|
|
|
Post by icefisher on Jun 24, 2013 4:07:51 GMT
You are a disingenuous schmuck. Nonum just demonstrated his ignorance again trying to tell us that a cherry tree is not a cherry tree. Fact is Bird Cherries and the popular varieties of cherries we eat are in fact in the same plant genus. So they do have something to do with each other and its NONUM who ends up the clueless one here. But it seems he is so intent on trying to insult somebody he just blurts out his ignorance. I guess its getting pretty tough for the warmists to find anything to cling to. . . .oh bad!
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 7:57:42 GMT
"Fact is Bird Cherries and the popular varieties of cherries we eat are in fact in the same plant genus."
Icefisher dear, so are many other Prunus members: "Prunus is a genus of trees and shrubs, which includes the plums, cherries, peaches, nectarines, apricots and almonds". (Wikipedia)
With the exception of the bird cherry, they have never grown naturally here so that we could not have used them to date the early arrival of spring from the 1840s.
If you think the bird cherry is a cherry tree, I'd love to see you consuming some of its fruits. The "bird" is there for a reason.
Magellan, poor man, I think has now disappeared into his low sunspot number citing tax trouble, permanently unable to comment on which year the hottest Finnish Lapland May, or national July, or the winter with the least number of ice records, was recorded, if any!
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 9:59:17 GMT
I can tell you that since i began living in Finland 5 years ago there is nobody I know there who does not think the summers are warmer and until recently the winters were unquestionably milder in the helsinki region. However my neighbour who comes from somewhere up north told me that the 2009-2010 winter was the worst winter he had ever experienced. In my own recollection we had weeks and weeks if not months and months of colder than -18C all day and night continually. FMI does not support that though. My heat pump potential supplier also said it was a particularly unusual winter. Several winters in recent years have been *particularly* bad for snow in helsinki to the point it seems like we could be glaciated if it continued.........but it all melts quite quickly. In 2009-2010 I was one of the first to clear my roof of snow but after some roofs collapsed it has now become normal for many roofs to be cleared even though several people get killed doing it, but after the effort of the first year i can no longer be bothered since it creates more damage than good. This last year we also had a monster amount of snow.
|
|
|
Post by cuttydyer on Jun 24, 2013 10:09:04 GMT
Overlooked 2013 posts from the Finnish Met:
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 10:26:45 GMT
"However my neighbour who comes from somewhere up north told me that the 2009-2010 winter was the worst winter he had ever experienced. In my own recollection we had weeks and weeks if not months and months of colder than -18C all day and night continually." Thank you for your input, that is exactly why we need scientific recordkeeping. One's own recollections, and one's neighbour's recollections just aren't reliable enough. Last time you complained amout the immensely cold winter 2009-10, I posted these statistics below (from Ilmastokatsus). You said that they somehow mysteriously did not apply to you as you were living somewhere outside the city or something. Now there has recently been a different radiant person writing who in fact lives inside Ring Road I, which is in its turn as close to any Urban Heat Island as one can get in Finland! If you were "continually" below -18C, it's about time you got that heating fixed!
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 10:30:56 GMT
Overlooked 2013 posts from the Finnish Met: You are one of the persons who can't tell subartic Summer from Spring from Winter. March is a statistical winter month in Finland, we're in fact that far north. Summer came early and strong, which is just what it should do under climate change. The falls will be long, warm, cloudy, and rainy, just like the 2012 fall was, in fact. If something is "colder than average", 50% are in fact.
|
|
|
Post by cuttydyer on Jun 24, 2013 10:38:14 GMT
Overlooked 2013 posts from the Finnish Met: Summer came early and srong, which is just what it should do under climate change. The falls will be long, warm, cloudy, and rainy, just like the 2012 fall was, in fact. "Climate Change" as in cooling NH & SH trends? NH: SH:
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 10:48:17 GMT
The Finnish average temperatures are for the last 30 years only because it has been warmer. The exception being the Baltic ice winters where the average is from about 1964 to present because there has been more ice recently than for the last 30 years. 2010-2011? was a severe baltic ice winter almost comparable to 1986-87 which was more severe than many years prior to that. So if it is unusually cold it could be warm and when the ice is normal there is far more of it than for the last 30 years of normal Similarly if you get your heating designed by a registered plumber he will be producing a system that enables you to be warm in conditions that were warm when it is now colder but that is all he is 'legally' required to do.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 10:56:29 GMT
The Finnish average temperatures are for the last 30 years only because it has been warmer. The exception being the Baltic ice winters where the average is from about 1964 to present because there has been more ice recently than for the last 30 years. Not true. Do you do Finnish at all or it it your wife who has to do it? "Jäätalvi keskimääräinen Tilastoihin taakse jäävä jäätalvi jää lähes normaaliin aikaan alkaneena ja laajuudeltaan keskimääräisenä. " One of you could perhaps translate and check the pertinent facts BEFORE you post. ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/tiedote/643653Where on earth do you get all your stories from? "1964"? Huh?
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 11:17:30 GMT
The Finnish average temperatures are for the last 30 years only because it has been warmer. The exception being the Baltic ice winters where the average is from about 1964 to present because there has been more ice recently than for the last 30 years. Not true. Do you do Finnish at all or it it your wife who has to do it? "Jäätalvi keskimääräinen Tilastoihin taakse jäävä jäätalvi jää lähes normaaliin aikaan alkaneena ja laajuudeltaan keskimääräisenä. " One of you could perhaps translate and check the pertinent facts BEFORE you post. ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/tiedote/643653Where on earth do you get all your stories from? "1964"? Huh? I am not sure if it is a Finnish quality to proud to be a f**kwit but evidently you enjoy it. To be fair it seems you could not read my English - perhaps that explains why so often you appear to be a psychiatric patient? The date range for the average ice amounts were on the FMI site showing the daily ice area and still are en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/ice-conditionsIn fact the normal average for 2013 according to that page is 1965 to 1986 rather than 1964 to 2013 as I thought.
|
|