|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 14:07:11 GMT
I did not see you quote a single source for your "1964" nor "1965" supposed changing of ice winter ratings, in any language. By what you say let us assume then that you are practically monolingual with English and will not be able to use any Finnish, Swedish etc sources? That will limit you quite a bit. As for ice winter ratings these are according to "Luomaranta, A., Haapala, J., Gregow, H., Ruosteenoja, K., Jylhä, K. & Laaksonen, A. 2010. Itämeren jääpeitteen muutokset vuoteen 2050 mennessä. Ilmatieteen laitos, Helsinki. Ilmatieteen laitoksen raportteja 2010:4. 23 s. " as follows: Rating from top: (extent in km2) Very mild Mild Average Harsh Very harsh Winters 1720-2001 according to this classification: So Radiant, what has been changed regarding the ice winter classifications and by whom? Hint: show this link to your wife: ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/tiedote/131189
|
|
|
Post by icefisher on Jun 24, 2013 16:30:11 GMT
Winters 1720-2001 according to this classification: So Radiant, what has been changed regarding the ice winter classifications and by whom? Hint: show this link to your wife: ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/tiedote/131189Looks perfectly normal Nonum, in fact the gap between very harsh winters is not near as wide as it was in the first part of the 20th century. In fact it appears there were 5 times in the period charted where the gaps between very harsh winters was wider than the current gap. Interestingly there was even such a gap deep in the Little Ice Age at the beginning of the chart. What this chart tells me loud and clear is that the "weather" continues to obliterate any climate change signal.
|
|
|
Post by magellan on Jun 24, 2013 16:57:46 GMT
John Daly kept several records of temperature data before he passed away a number of years ago. I checked to see if he had any records for Finland. Yes he did. www.john-daly.com/stations/stations.htm#Europe The data is reported as 'annual mean temperature[C]'. It appears the data was retrieved in the early 2000's. Next is to find the current annual mean temperature data and compare to see if the data has been "adjusted" since John Daly created the graphs. I will then try to find out if an archived data source exists. Maybe Radiant or Numerouno can locate the raw data sources for Finland station temperature data and post the link. Numerouno, the more I look into this, your argument for "accelerating" Finland temperatures over the last 20 years is looking pretty silly. It appears Finland's FMI is also infected with AGW advocacy rather than honest science, no offense. Was UHI/land use change properly taken into account for the high temps you are so willing to pay $$$ to charity if I locate them? I highly doubt it. Anyone care to bet the past has been cooled and the present warmed?
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 19:13:51 GMT
I did not see you quote a single source for your "1964" nor "1965" supposed changing of ice winter ratings, in any language. By what you say let us assume then that you are practically monolingual with English and will not be able to use any Finnish, Swedish etc sources? That will limit you quite a bit. As for ice winter ratings these are according to "Luomaranta, A., Haapala, J., Gregow, H., Ruosteenoja, K., Jylhä, K. & Laaksonen, A. 2010. Itämeren jääpeitteen muutokset vuoteen 2050 mennessä. Ilmatieteen laitos, Helsinki. Ilmatieteen laitoksen raportteja 2010:4. 23 s. " as follows: Rating from top: (extent in km2) Very mild Mild Average Harsh Very harsh Winters 1720-2001 according to this classification: So Radiant, what has been changed regarding the ice winter classifications and by whom? Hint: show this link to your wife: ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/tiedote/131189 Numerouno I am sorry i cannot help you much further about this. I have no idea why you are getting so muddled up by my useage of the 1964 date That date has nothing to do with the implementation change date of the new ice classification system. And I have no idea why FMI is saying that the normal period for 2013 ice winters is 1965-1986 while the recently changed normal period for the rest of Finland is 1980 to 2011. When i have a bit more time I will attempt to find out the reasons for the useage of those dates. As far as i am aware that peculiar date range only appeared this year on those charts as i have been following the charts for years without noticing that date range before this year. I suggest you show my text to somebody who can help you, and you discuss it together a bit before you upset yourself any further.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 20:16:21 GMT
Radiant, even if you don't read Finnish, I should think you can read the Arabic numeric sequence "1961". It is neither "1964" nor "1965". Neither is "1986" the same as "2010". I'm sorry for my remarks if your mental trouble really is early Alzheimer's. It's a wretched disease.
As to the you got no idea, why don't you show the Finnish passage to your wife? Even Google Translate will get the gist for you.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 20:27:49 GMT
Looks perfectly normal Nonum, in fact the gap between very harsh winters is not near as wide as it was in the first part of the 20th century. In fact it appears there were 5 times in the period charted where the gaps between very harsh winters was wider than the current gap. Interestingly there was even such a gap deep in the Little Ice Age at the beginning of the chart. What this chart tells me loud and clear is that the "weather" continues to obliterate any climate change signal. In fact someone seems to have taken the trouble and extended the Baltic sea ice extent graph with recent data and a 5-year moving average. I don't know who, but seems legit. The value for 2010-11 was 315,000km2, for 2011-12 179,000 km2 (the shortest Finnish ice winter recorded), for 2012-13 180,000km2.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 20:53:34 GMT
Radiant, even if you don't read Finnish, I should think you can read the Arabic numeric sequence "1961". It is neither "1964" nor "1965". Neither is "1986" the same as "2010". I'm sorry for my remarks if your mental trouble really is early Alzheimer's. It's a wretched disease. As to the you got no idea, why don't you show the Finnish passage to your wife? Even Google Translate will get the gist for you. Numerouno I really cannot help you much further. It has nothing to do with me. I suggest you ask FMI why they have a 1965-1986 date range as the normal period for 2013 I am just the messenger. As I said when i have more time i will try to help you about this - if you cannot resolve it yourself.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 21:05:44 GMT
Typical Radiant, you invent something with the wrong years off by a mile, which you claim to have checked twice & "don't know a thing mister", and be mad at me.
Perhaps you really should see a mental resources specialist? I think I have suggested it to you previously. For your own good.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 21:23:22 GMT
Typical Radiant, you invent something with the wrong years off by a mile, which you claim to have checked twice & "don't know a thing mister", and be mad at me. Perhaps you really should see a mental resources specialist? I think I have suggested it to you previously. For your own good. Numerouno Here is the page in Finnish ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/jaatilanne?doAsUserLanguageId=fi_FIThe 2013 map is compared to the average map for the so called 1965-1986 normal period. Elsewhere on FMI the 2013 normal period is 1980-2011 So fairly clearly if a poster here says it is colder than average it could actually be warmer because average is only recent years But if a poster says ice winters are normal - like this year - they could be relatively severe compared to the last 20 years of mainly very mild ice winters before the current run of more harsh ice winters. Interesting the 1965-1986 period was one of the coldest periods in Finland in the last 100 years but the normal period maps were created in the 1990's.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 21:41:09 GMT
As I said, show the link I gave to you above to your wife.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 21:45:28 GMT
Maybe Radiant or Numerouno can locate the raw data sources for Finland station temperature data and post the link. Maybe Master Magellan can do it all by himself? You first register with the FMI and get your personal API key to access the database engine. Thereafter you will follow the instructions available at: en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/open-data-manual-fmi-wfs-servicesAnd we will see how you manage with your climate science yourself, instead of bickering how bad they all are, just spending tax money!
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 22:01:18 GMT
As I said, show the link I gave to you above to your wife. As i have exhaustively explained several times you are muddled up. You keep talking about the current new ice classification data which has zero to do with the FMI date range FMI is showing a normal period created in the 1990's using the years 1965-1986 when it was particularly cold in Finland.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 22:10:00 GMT
FMI is showing a normal period created in the 1990's using the years 1965-1986 when it was particularly cold in Finland.
And just to deceive the public further, the FMI have instated even a new procedure for classifying winters. That is in the link your wife needs to see.
All this problem stems from the fact that you think people can read your mind directly. No we can't. Hey, does this come as a surprise to you?
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 24, 2013 22:12:15 GMT
As I said, show the link I gave to you above to your wife. Numerouno The changes to the baltic ice winter classification system were i think driven by the ice breaker industry rather than FMI. Odin for example was in antarctica suring the worst winter in 35 years and one of the Finnish boats was on a survey? trip somewhere that winter or in another winter when it was required. Generally speaking the ice breaker industry is aware that ordinary people which includes policitians have a poor understanding of the ongoing need for icebreaker capability. As for example the comical situation when the only US icebreaker capable of reaching noam left the US without any significant icebreaker capability for several months.
|
|
|
Post by numerouno on Jun 24, 2013 22:17:50 GMT
The changes to the baltic ice winter classification system were i think driven by the ice breaker industry rather than FMI.
Was that told by the voices?
|
|