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Post by fredzl4dh on Aug 16, 2015 12:46:32 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 16, 2015 18:10:08 GMT
Note the corresponding cold mid-western winters of 1976-78. Note the ~40-year spacing between the winters of 1936, 1976 and 2014 (and perhaps 1895). Wagers on this winter in the American Mid-West? Wish I had similar data for NW Europe and the NE US. I have to check my spreadsheet ... 2014 is probably 2013-14 and I haven't yet updated it for last winter, which we know was not quite as bad in the Mid-west but was a whopper further east.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 16, 2015 19:11:44 GMT
Folks want to concentrate on the Pacific in regards to west coast drought. They seem to forget that the Atlantic plays a role as well.
This drought is not going away for awhile.
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Post by fredzl4dh on Aug 17, 2015 11:51:38 GMT
Note the corresponding cold mid-western winters of 1976-78. Note the ~40-year spacing between the winters of 1936, 1976 and 2014 (and perhaps 1895). Wagers on this winter in the American Mid-West? Wish I had similar data for NW Europe and the NE US. I have to check my spreadsheet ... 2014 is probably 2013-14 and I haven't yet updated it for last winter, which we know was not quite as bad in the Mid-west but was a whopper further east. Another book this one mentions the east cold winter with lots of stats. archive.org/stream/proceedingso00clim#page/n155/mode/2up
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 17, 2015 14:14:37 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 17, 2015 21:07:19 GMT
From The History of British Winters www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=winter-historyfor the 3 winters discussed in the post's opening book reference. 1976-77: Heavy wet snow fell in early December, mid December, and mid January. Mid January also saw some good coverings though, up to 6 inches lying at times. 1977-78: Mid January, 6 foot drifts! A week later, and 4 inches fell. Mid February saw 4 inches also. Late January, heavy snow in Scotland, drifting, 28 inches falling in parts! Mid February (see above) was very snowy in the North East, East and South West. February 11th had 1 ft in Durham and Edinburgh. Feb. 15-16th South West England, blizzard with huge drifts, sounds like my cup of tea! 1978-79: The last really severe, snowy winter, for now anyway, and one my parents go on about! Late December falls of 6-7n inches in Southern Scotland and the North East started it off. It was very cold in parts. Mid February saw drifts of 6-7 feet on the East coast of England. Mid March had severe blizzards and drifting, in North Eastern England drifts reached a staggering 15 feet! Very snowy.
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Post by missouriboy on Aug 17, 2015 23:24:49 GMT
Note the corresponding cold mid-western winters of 1976-78. Note the ~40-year spacing between the winters of 1936, 1976 and 2014 (and perhaps 1895). Wagers on this winter in the American Mid-West? Wish I had similar data for NW Europe and the NE US. I have to check my spreadsheet ... 2014 is probably 2013-14 and I haven't yet updated it for last winter, which we know was not quite as bad in the Mid-west but was a whopper further east. Another book this one mentions the east cold winter with lots of stats. archive.org/stream/proceedingso00clim#page/n155/mode/2upGreat finds Fred!!!! I note that January, 1977 observed mean temps (map on page 12-7) show the cold extended from the mid-west to the Atlantic and from Canada to the Gulf. St. Louis / Kansas City averaged -11 C (10 deg below normal). The next two winters were even colder. The next article page 13-1 discusses the frequency with which such winters recur, reconstructed from the tree ring record. It suggests that they tend to come in clusters separated by decades. Interestingly, the period with the highest count of similar winters was 1615-55. The mid-western cross section charts suggest they may occur at ~40-yr increments, at least since about 1895. Seems 2015 is the 10th recurring 40-YR interval since 1615 ... for what that's worth, if anything. Also has (page 20-1) a rather extensive description of 1976-77 El Nino development and dissipation. And a diagnosis (page 21-1). As an afterthought, it is SOOOOO nice in reading these old climate / weather summaries and analyses to NOT see everything blamed on CO2.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 22, 2015 15:14:05 GMT
Quick question. Why did pine cones evolve to not germinate unless they went through a fire cycle?
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 22, 2015 19:49:38 GMT
Quick question. Why did pine cones evolve to not germinate unless they went through a fire cycle? Was evacuated out of Eastern WA a few days ago because of fires, not sure how the trees came up with that one. There was a PhD feller talking on a Canandian station last month in regards to Alberta/Sas fires. He stated that the mismanagement of the forests for the past 60 years has really screwed the pooch. Guess fires used to break out, but then would hit young forest and die out naturally. By preventing, putting out fires the fuel load is so huge now that fire will get so intense that it will wipe out huge areas. He talked about the evolution, required fire to breach germination on pine cones. It was the forests way of cleansing, and renewed new growth, which acted as a firebreak. Kind of like a patch work continuous renewal. It was a very interesting segment.
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Post by nonentropic on Aug 22, 2015 22:33:18 GMT
Sig Pine cones are made for fires you silly man.
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Post by acidohm on Aug 23, 2015 7:36:45 GMT
From The History of British Winters www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=winter-historyfor the 3 winters discussed in the post's opening book reference. 1976-77: Heavy wet snow fell in early December, mid December, and mid January. Mid January also saw some good coverings though, up to 6 inches lying at times. 1977-78: Mid January, 6 foot drifts! A week later, and 4 inches fell. Mid February saw 4 inches also. Late January, heavy snow in Scotland, drifting, 28 inches falling in parts! Mid February (see above) was very snowy in the North East, East and South West. February 11th had 1 ft in Durham and Edinburgh. Feb. 15-16th South West England, blizzard with huge drifts, sounds like my cup of tea! 1978-79: The last really severe, snowy winter, for now anyway, and one my parents go on about! Late December falls of 6-7n inches in Southern Scotland and the North East started it off. It was very cold in parts. Mid February saw drifts of 6-7 feet on the East coast of England. Mid March had severe blizzards and drifting, in North Eastern England drifts reached a staggering 15 feet! Very snowy. 1666-67: Thames covered in ice 1669: A cold year in regards to the milder ones proceeding it. Thames froze over, again. 1674: March snowfall, lasted for 13 days, described as ' The thirteen drifty days' . Most of the sheep perished, unfortunatley. 1676: June exceptionally hot (notice the correlation with 1976! lol) 1677: Thames froze, again! Becoming a regular occurance. 1680-81: Winter was severe, with lots of Easterly winds. The Easterlies brought dry air. I like this entry, noting how an exceptionally hot summer can be recorded amongst the excpetionally cold winters. As alot of MET official types are calling JULY hottest ever.....worth bearing in mind
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Post by nautonnier on Aug 23, 2015 21:22:30 GMT
Quick question. Why did pine cones evolve to not germinate unless they went through a fire cycle? Pine cones evolved to not germinate until a fire cycle as that would mean that the old trees had been burned and there would be more chance of the seeds actually finding somewhere to grow without too much competition from old growth trees as they would have been burned down. The result would be old growth burned being replaced with new growth from seed. The mix of new green trees and old growth dry trees would ensure that fires never raged out of control. There are also beetles that can _only_ reproduce by laying eggs in burned wood. These also evolved over a long time. Greens have zero historical or geological understanding and are in complete ignorance of these evolutionary specializations. They seem to think that forest fires only happen due to evil loggers and capitalists.
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Post by sigurdur on Aug 23, 2015 22:47:34 GMT
Quick question. Why did pine cones evolve to not germinate unless they went through a fire cycle? Pine cones evolved to not germinate until a fire cycle as that would mean that the old trees had been burned and there would be more chance of the seeds actually finding somewhere to grow without too much competition from old growth trees as they would have been burned down. The result would be old growth burned being replaced with new growth from seed. The mix of new green trees and old growth dry trees would ensure that fires never raged out of control. There are also beetles that can _only_ reproduce by laying eggs in burned wood. These also evolved over a long time. Greens have zero historical or geological understanding and are in complete ignorance of these evolutionary specializations. They seem to think that forest fires only happen due to evil loggers and capitalists. 100% accurate Nautonnier. The fire cycle is a HUGE part of natural forest management. Putting out fires has gotten us to the mess we are now in. Amazing, in the early 1900's, there was MORE forest, yet fewer large fires. Go figure eh?
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Post by Ratty on Aug 23, 2015 23:54:09 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Sept 15, 2015 3:11:41 GMT
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