bxs
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 115
|
Post by bxs on Jan 14, 2010 11:45:37 GMT
"The very idea that mankind can make significant parametric changes to the Earth has to be the height of arrogance" That sentence shows which side is religion. Shows which side? In the Crusades which side, the Muslims or the Christians, was a religion? LOL! icefisher, Muslims and Christians are pretty much the same religion, you can add Judaism in there too... Old Testament > New Testament > Koran... the best selling book series of all time . (A book series is a sequence of books having certain characteristics in common that are formally identified together as a group. -- as defined on Wikipedia) ------------------------ "The very idea that mankind can make significant parametric changes to the Earth has to be the height of arrogance" That sentence shows which side is religion. socoldI think it just shows ignorance(even if religiously motivated). We, mankind, definitely CAN make significant parametric changes to the Earth: www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5503-5.cfm --- the last paragraph ce399.typepad.com/weblog/seismic-weapons/www.cheniere.org/correspondence/022501.htmI am sure USA got one of those too, and if we don't... we got the next best thing: www.haarp.alaska.edu/"HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes." ---
|
|
|
Post by hunter on Jan 14, 2010 13:39:25 GMT
Humans have made changes in the world eco-system and impacted the climate for millenia. Land use changes, swamp draining, river levees, d**es, de-forestation, desertification, urbanization, deliberate burning, accidental burning, strip mining, soot, toxification, etc. etc. These are all things that can be managed and should be managed. Not because they are going to prevent climate change, but because they improve the quality of life for humans and the health of the eco-system. The current obsession, managing 'climate change by way of crazy ideas about CO2, linked to apocalyptic clap trap by way of AGW, is the issue.
|
|
bxs
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 115
|
Post by bxs on Jan 14, 2010 16:33:47 GMT
Humans have made changes in the world eco-system and impacted the climate for millenia. Land use changes, swamp draining, river levees, d**es, de-forestation, desertification, urbanization, deliberate burning, accidental burning, strip mining, soot, toxification, etc. etc. These are all things that can be managed and should be managed. Not because they are going to prevent climate change, but because they improve the quality of life for humans and the health of the eco-system. The current obsession, managing 'climate change by way of crazy ideas about CO2, linked to apocalyptic clap trap by way of AGW, is the issue. so basically what it really comes down to, is this:
|
|
|
Post by steve on Jan 14, 2010 17:48:10 GMT
I think this writer is the sort of person that Ed Miliband and Gordon Brown were referring to when they talked about "behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics" And there I was thinking that the 'flat earth' people were the ones that state CO 2 molecules only emit infra red 'up' or 'down' Your posts are very one dimensional, nautonnier
|
|
|
Post by AstroMet on Jan 14, 2010 21:10:01 GMT
I agree with Walter Williams. It is a sad thing to have witnessed, but again, the ideologues who created this poisonous atmosphere in climate science and meteorology aren't exactly forecasting - but alarming people to suit their own interests - and that isn't science, and never was. What Climategate has shown is what some climatologists have been talking about for years - this "religious fervor" that claims that anyone who does not agree with them is a "denier" - when these same people making these claims are in denial about the causes of Earth's climate change - The Sun.
|
|
bxs
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 115
|
Post by bxs on Jan 15, 2010 2:10:21 GMT
I agree with Walter Williams. It is a sad thing to have witnessed, but again, the ideologues who created this poisonous atmosphere in climate science and meteorology aren't exactly forecasting - but alarming people to suit their own interests - and that isn't science, and never was. What Climategate has shown is what some climatologists have been talking about for years - this "religious fervor" that claims that anyone who does not agree with them is a "denier" - when these same people making these claims are in denial about the causes of Earth's climate change - The Sun. I grew up in the USSR, my parents moved to the States when I turned 13. Contrary to popular belief, USSR was not "communist". It was a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" aka the working class, so farmers there were like serfs, even after the revolution. The Russian Empire, was the last major World player to officially end slavery (serfdom) in 1904. Lenin who was the first leader of the USSR, was actually a German spy, tasked with removing the Russian Empire from WWI, as a spy he did his job perfectly, and in 1917 managed to throw world relations into chaos for the next 80 years. The reason for the history lesson . Before WWI, the masses were easily controlled, due to superstition and lack of basic science knowledge. After WWI, every self respecting country began educating the masses. By the 1950's the ruling elite realized that if they continued to educate the general populace, they would lose much of the control they enjoyed for generations. So 2 major concepts were mainstreamed with great success. Planned Obsolescence and Consumerism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescencewww.ehow.com/how_2286477_escape-consumerism.htmlBefore those 2 things were implemented country-wide in the US, Americans were a lot smarter, they at least didn't need a calculator to see how much change one should get after a 43 cent purchase out of a dollar. I only completed 4 grades in the USSR, and was just an average math student. Due to immigration process, I missed a whole school year. Yet, when we finally came to the US in 1990, i was placed into 8th grade, due to my "exceptional"(sarcasm) knowledge of mathematics. It seems that, in only roughly 30 years(1960-1990), the US has largely transformed from a country of "Smart Hard Working Entrepreneurs - Producers" into " Consumer Drones". The word "Consumer" from "Consume", originally meant "to waste away" or "Squander" and was used as an insult, to label useless individuals, aka non-producers. As a "Consumer" nation, we have largely become so mentally lazy, that most people only respond to sensationalism and hype. Hell, 70% don't mind being force-fed any BS, as long as it glitters, got pretty graphics, and presented by a fashionable charismatic persona. As it is today, an average person in the U.S., PRODUCES roughly 4.39 pounds of trash per day, most of which, is not recyclable, and even if some of it is, there is a lot more waste produced during the "recycling" process. See the link below. www.pbs.org/now/enterprisingideas/blog/2008/08/And this is where the whole Climategate, was supposed to play a major role, an ingenious scheme to levy more taxes and waste more of your time and energy with useless things. www.carbontax.org/Cause, God forbid, you might do something productive with your time and money. Then all hell breaks loose; you might miss the next hot commercial that will call you stupid, for not running and buying some crap, that you'd probably never use anyway. The only consolation we have, is that much of the rest of the world is promptly running in the same direction, so we might possibly turn this unfortunate scenario around; before the movie "Idiocracy" becomes a reality.
|
|
|
Post by stranger on Jan 15, 2010 2:19:46 GMT
BXS is a voice of sanity here. It is curious how much value a diploma granted through social promotion seems to have. And how many prospective employers will allow a PhD to bring his POSSLQ along to fill out his employment application.
Stranger
|
|
|
Post by hairball on Jan 15, 2010 2:20:23 GMT
Well said, bxs, they created a consumer society and then used the cravings it gave people to tax them into de facto slavery. Personally I could never see where my taxes went, at least since 2008 I know they go into the pockets of bankers.
I cannot recommend highly enough Adam Curtis' documentary "The Century of The Self". It's 4 hours long unfortunately but Edward Bernays was an incredibly intelligent and influential man who everyone should know about.
The global warming movement, whether AGW is real or not, has been run according to Bernays' theories. I think his ideas might be a little out of date now though.
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Jan 15, 2010 2:40:40 GMT
I'm sorry ... planned obsolescence ... I'm not buying it. Consumerism ... a cultural development rather than something pushed onto us by government. Going from an "average" math student to skipping one year, then being quadruple promoted in school ... Really? And with this, you are hoping to promote an argument that ... (Sorry, I don't know).
We work with a number of people from numerous countries every day. Interestingly, one of my better stories (not in a sense you might appreciate) was with a lady who bragged constantly to me about her Ph. D. in Mathematics ... she got that in Russia.
You may have some points in your post, but you gotta clean up the sensationalism and the conspiracy theories before I can find it.
|
|
|
Post by stranger on Jan 15, 2010 2:40:46 GMT
BXS, the post was historically correct but somewhat tongue in cheek. You see, Liberal is one of those words that used to mean one thing - and is now taken to mean something else. Much like Humpty Dumpty, whose words meant only what Mr. Dumpty meant them to mean, nothing more or less.
Liberal used to mean "liberally educated," today it means a blind follower of who knows what charlatan. Just like the topers at the original Libre Cabeza Taverna, where working men came to complain about the hardness of the work, the stinginess of their masters - and boast of the potency of the aguardiente. Just before they fell into a stupor.
Now, instead of paralyzed on good brandy, the present crop of "I think I'm a Liberal's" are intoxicated on words. A much less satisfactory sort of tipple, with a much longer lasting hangover.
Stranger
|
|
|
Post by sentient on Jan 15, 2010 4:42:55 GMT
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - unknown
And my wallet is right here in my pocket. But you have to work for it. If you can get it out of my pocket, it's yours.
"Go ahead, make my day" - Harry
|
|
bxs
Level 3 Rank
Posts: 115
|
Post by bxs on Jan 15, 2010 4:47:03 GMT
I'm sorry ... planned obsolescence ... I'm not buying it. Consumerism ... a cultural development rather than something pushed onto us by government. I am going to go out on a limb here, and presume that you were born in the US. Which means, you got your citizenship with the first breath of air. I had to take the citizenship test, where they ask you a whole bunch of questions about American history, that most Born Americans have no idea about, and probably never will. But it would do you some good to learn about your country, US history is very interesting. But here is an excerpt from a pretty good summary. www.thefiniteworld.com/node/97--------------------------------------------------- " The modern economy, driven by the need to make an increasing profit, has turned these natural processes of development into something plotted and planned. In the decade and a half following the end of the Second World War, business and political leaders worked tirelessly to promote consumption as a means to maintain economic growth. In The Story of Stuff, Anne Leonard describes what happened: “Shortly after the World War 2, these guys were figuring out how to ramp up the [U.S.] economy. Retailing analyst Victor Lebow articulated the solution that has become the norm for the whole system. He said: ‘Our enormously productive economy... demands that we make consumption our way of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals, that we seek our spiritual satisfaction, our ego satisfaction, in consumption... we need things consumed, burned up, replaced and discarded at an ever-accelerating rate.’ And President Eisenhower’s Council of Economic Advisors Chairman said that ‘The American economy’s ultimate purpose is to produce more consumer goods.’ ” Though some planned obsolescence occurred in the earlier part of the century, it hit the big time in the post-WW2 boom." ------------------------------------------ Going from an "average" math student to skipping one year, then being quadruple promoted in school ... Really? And with this, you are hoping to promote an argument that ... (Sorry, I don't know). I am not "selling" or "promoting" anything, I simply presented facts. And gave a simple example, to prove a point, i was not attempting to belittle anyone. It does seem that I struck a nerve there, and since I got my internet blade out now, lets go all the way to the bone . The public education system in the US is a joke, and it's not a funny joke either. Most of the emphasis in the American schools, is on social interaction and confidence. You can be dumber than a tree stump, but as long as you project confidence and show up for class, all is overlooked. Now this part is good, excerpt from: www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/about/sat/FAQ.html#quest07------------------ The SAT has three scores, each on the scale of 200-800. Your score includes writing (W 200-800), mathematics (M 200-800), and critical reading (CR 200-800). Two subscores are given for the writing section: a multiple-choice subscore on a scale of 20-80, and an essay subscore on a scale of 2-12. Is it true that you get a 200 on the SAT just for signing your name? The College Board does not report scores that are lower than 200. In reality, if we received a blank answer sheet, with only student identifying information filled in, it would be considered an automatic request to cancel scores and no scores would be reported. ---------------------- I personally thought the test was a bit biased, since at that time, I was only speaking English for about 5 years, that whole double points for English language portion was difficult. Thankfully I only made 2 mistakes on the math part. And of course 200 points for signing my name, for a total of 1320. (scores were different then, i think 1600 was max, if you got everything perfect) In USSR I was an average math student. In the 1990s US, I as well as many others from the former soviet block, could have easily taught math in junior high. 3 people that i went to high school with, were snatched up by MIT on full scholarship, 2 during their junior year and 1 during his sophomore year, couldn't speak a lick of English, they were exceptional at math though. We work with a number of people from numerous countries every day. Interestingly, one of my better stories (not in a sense you might appreciate) was with a lady who bragged constantly to me about her Ph. D. in Mathematics ... she got that in Russia. Define "got", there were a lot of different ways for someone to get that. If she actually earned it, she has bragging privileges, then again, anyone with a Ph.D. in mathematics has them. You may have some points in your post, but you gotta clean up the sensationalism and the conspiracy theories before I can find it. Definitions of Conspiracy on the Web: * a secret agreement between two or more people to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose The key word being "Secret", if people know about it, its not a conspiracy.
|
|
|
Post by slh1234 on Jan 15, 2010 7:10:02 GMT
I am going to go out on a limb here, and presume that you were born in the US. Which means, you got your citizenship with the first breath of air. I had to take the citizenship test, where they ask you a whole bunch of questions about American history, that most Born Americans have no idea about, and probably never will. But it would do you some good to learn about your country, US history is very interesting. But here is an excerpt from a pretty good summary. I was born in the US, However; my wife was not. I helped her study for her naturalization exam. I knew the history she had to learn to earn her citizenship.Good try with the condescnetion, though. I know it fits with the stereotype that those of us who were born in the US are ignorant ... but maybe it doesn't always fit. --------------------------------------------------- " The modern economy, driven by the need to make an increasing profit, has turned these natural processes of development into something plotted and planned. In the decade and a half following the end of the Second World War, business and political leaders worked tirelessly to promote consumption as a means to maintain economic growth. That is a distortion. Business leaders worked tirelessly to earn a profit. It's pretty simple. In The Story of Stuff, Anne Leonard describes what happened: Before we even go there ... I spend as much time thinking for myself as I do reading someone else's opinion. Although the following opinion may be interesting, the fact that it is written gives it no more weight than any opinion I write. “Shortly after the World War 2, these guys were figuring out how to ramp up the [U.S.] economy. Retailing analyst Victor Lebow articulated the solution that has become the norm for the whole system. He said: ‘Our enormously productive economy... demands that we make consumption our way of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals, that we seek our spiritual satisfaction, our ego satisfaction, in consumption... we need things consumed, burned up, replaced and discarded at an ever-accelerating rate.’ And President Eisenhower’s Council of Economic Advisors Chairman said that ‘The American economy’s ultimate purpose is to produce more consumer goods.’ ” Though some planned obsolescence occurred in the earlier part of the century, it hit the big time in the post-WW2 boom." ------------------------------------------ Interesting opinion, but it is one person's opinion, and it seems very conspiritorial in nature. I have been in business for myself, and worked in business for other people. If you plan for obsolescence, you will get your ass kicked in the market. What really happens is you get a new version produced, and push it out as quickly as possible hoping to beat your competition. It becomes obsolete very quickly because both you, and your competition has to continue to innovate to improve on that and get the next version in a marketable state. That's not really anything like what you are describing. I am not "selling" or "promoting" anything, I simply presented facts. And gave a simple example, to prove a point, i was not attempting to belittle anyone. It does seem that I struck a nerve there, and since I got my internet blade out now, lets go all the way to the bone . You really need to learn the difference between presenting facts and presenting opinions. 2+2 = 4 is a fact. What you have presented is opinion - nothing more. There is a big difference. The public education system in the US is a joke, and it's not a funny joke either. Most of the emphasis in the American schools, is on social interaction and confidence. You can be dumber than a tree stump, but as long as you project confidence and show up for class, all is overlooked. This is an example of demagoguery and stereotyping. Now this part is good, excerpt from: www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/about/sat/FAQ.html#quest07------------------ The SAT has three scores, each on the scale of 200-800. Your score includes writing (W 200-800), mathematics (M 200-800), and critical reading (CR 200-800). Two subscores are given for the writing section: a multiple-choice subscore on a scale of 20-80, and an essay subscore on a scale of 2-12. Is it true that you get a 200 on the SAT just for signing your name? I don't know, but what if it is? What college will a score of 200 gain you cceptance in to? It is interesting that although we point to Asia as producing so many top quality engineers, many from there are coming to the US to complete education. I know this first hand because of my involvement in the Korean Culture in America (Now you know where my wife is from. I also lived there 4 1/2 years.) The College Board does not report scores that are lower than 200. In reality, if we received a blank answer sheet, with only student identifying information filled in, it would be considered an automatic request to cancel scores and no scores would be reported. ---------------------- So? Again, what will this gain you entrance in to? 200 is just an arbitrary number. I personally thought the test was a bit biased, since at that time, I was only speaking English for about 5 years, that whole double points for English language portion was difficult. Thankfully I only made 2 mistakes on the math part. And of course 200 points for signing my name, for a total of 1320. (scores were different then, i think 1600 was max, if you got everything perfect) Yes, scoring was adjusted during the Clinton years, so scores now do not equal scores before then, but do you think colleges such as Stanford and Berkely haven't figured that out? So what does it mean? In USSR I was an average math student. In the 1990s US, I as well as many others from the former soviet block, could have easily taught math in junior high. 3 people that i went to high school with, were snatched up by MIT on full scholarship, 2 during their junior year and 1 during his sophomore year, couldn't speak a lick of English, they were exceptional at math though. English is not needed for math. However; your claim about being able to teach math in Jr. High is just hyberbole and bragging. I'm sure it's real to you, though. Define "got", there were a lot of different ways for someone to get that. If she actually earned it, she has bragging privileges, then again, anyone with a Ph.D. in mathematics has them. got = received. She was just an example because she was so proud of it, but completely lacked the common sense to solve the problem in front of her. She is not put out as being representative of Ph. D's from Russia, I just thought it was funny because she came to mind immediately when I started reading your thread about how average where you came from was so exceptional when placed against all those ignorant American kids. [ Definitions of Conspiracy on the Web: * a secret agreement between two or more people to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose The key word being "Secret", if people know about it, its not a conspiracy. Where in the definition you gave does it say that if people know about it, it's not conspiracy? I don't read it there. But when I read about how some group behind the scenes is planning together for obsolescence, and molding the culture for consumerism, etc. then I see two or more people agreeing and planning together for a harmful purpose. Conspiracy theories are all over the place. I've heard a few hundred in my days (Believe it or not, we ignorant Americans learn quite a bit from our experience). In a nutshell, I say BS. That's not what's going on. It's all in your mind ... and in the minds of a few people you are reading and quoting without thinking through.
|
|
|
Post by byz on Jan 15, 2010 8:03:41 GMT
I did a similar thread last year. It got removed eventually
|
|
|
Post by twawki on Jan 15, 2010 9:55:09 GMT
|
|