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Post by goldbuster1 on May 5, 2010 2:48:54 GMT
CO2 Mol mass = 44.01 g per Mol
Propane = 44.1 g per Mol
Oxygen = 32 g per Mol
Air = 28 g per Mol
H2O = 18 g per Mol and Methane = 16 g per Mol
Oxygen is lacking at relatively low atmosphere because it is too heavy.
Anyone who owns a Boat will tell you that Propane is the biggest problem because when it leaks it is so heavy that it will go directly down bellow and explode when you hit the ignition.
So plants are ''eating'' CO2 to create Oxygen, Plants are usually found at ground level, if you climb a mountain, you will loose sight of any vegetation before you run out of Oxygen.
So if CO2 is too heavy to be in the atmosphere how could it be involved in the greenhouse effect?
Science 101
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Post by sigurdur on May 5, 2010 3:03:09 GMT
Ya know, this one I am going to have to mull over. You have a very valid point.
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Post by hunter on May 5, 2010 3:15:30 GMT
CO2 Mol mass = 44.01 g per Mol Propane = 44.1 g per Mol Oxygen = 32 g per Mol Air = 28 g per Mol H2O = 18 g per Mol and Methane = 16 g per Mol Oxygen is lacking at relatively low atmosphere because it is too heavy. Anyone who owns a Boat will tell you that Propane is the biggest problem because when it leaks it is so heavy that it will go directly down bellow and explode when you hit the ignition. So plants are ''eating'' CO2 to create Oxygen, Plants are usually found at ground level, if you climb a mountain, you will loose sight of any vegetation before you run out of Oxygen. So if CO2 is too heavy to be in the atmosphere how could it be involved in the greenhouse effect? Science 101 Please ask your teacher to let you re-take science 101. You clearly slept through it. If you did not sleep through it, then request a refund. |
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Post by goldbuster1 on May 5, 2010 3:39:27 GMT
Hunter bought CO2 emission scam certificates at the Al Gore state Auction for $5 a ton.
He plans to sell it back at the ficticious market value of $22 a ton.
So Science 101, Physics 101 and Chemistry 101 dont matter to him.
Even if God himself shows up and tell us all it is a scam, he will still percist
Parasite, go work to create real assets you Bum!
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Post by poitsplace on May 5, 2010 6:04:39 GMT
No, it's just that you've oversimplified things. CO2 is a trace gas that only weighs about 50% more than the other gases in the atmosphere. Its mixed up quite well by normal forces of convection...although there is something of a gradient in its distribution (somewhat lower percentages higher up). Yeah, technically that has an impact on the greenhouse effect...just not much.
The greenhouse effect is actually very real...but the greenhouse effect (the temperature gradient that makes CO2's emissions lower, leading to warmer ground temperatures) is logarithmic...but the driving force of absorption verses emissions is its self...logarithmic as well. The greenhouse effect is actually quite potent at very low concentrations. But then the gradient of the atmosphere has been pushed far enough that convection/latent heat take over an ever-increasing chunk of the energy transfer...leaving the climate system fairly insensitive.
It might actually be so insensitive at this point that we can't even detect global temperatures with enough accuracy to detect any increases in the greenhouse effect. I do at least give alarmists the benefit of the doubt and let them run with the assumption that ALL warming (since one of the two peaks in our temperature record) is from CO2. The resulting warming rate is hardly alarming though....5C to .6C per century since the end of the last warming period in the 1940s. This is hardly alarming.
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Post by steve on May 5, 2010 8:13:39 GMT
Hunter bought CO2 emission scam certificates at the Al Gore state Auction for $5 a ton. He plans to sell it back at the ficticious market value of $22 a ton. So Science 101, Physics 101 and Chemistry 101 dont matter to him. Even if God himself shows up and tell us all it is a scam, he will still percist Parasite, go work to create real assets you Bum! Looks like hunter's status as a double-agent on the side of the UN conspiracy has been uncovered. |
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Post by nautonnier on May 5, 2010 9:35:01 GMT
CO2 Mol mass = 44.01 g per Mol Propane = 44.1 g per Mol Oxygen = 32 g per Mol Air = 28 g per Mol H2O = 18 g per Mol and Methane = 16 g per Mol Oxygen is lacking at relatively low atmosphere because it is too heavy. Anyone who owns a Boat will tell you that Propane is the biggest problem because when it leaks it is so heavy that it will go directly down bellow and explode when you hit the ignition. So plants are ''eating'' CO2 to create Oxygen, Plants are usually found at ground level, if you climb a mountain, you will loose sight of any vegetation before you run out of Oxygen. So if CO2 is too heavy to be in the atmosphere how could it be involved in the greenhouse effect? Science 101 This actually neatly shows how immutable laws of physics - do not just simply apply in the real world as they might in the laboratory. Steve and SoCold often make similar mistaken claims without knowledge of the real world. The convective action in the atmosphere is such that large water droplets and hail can be carried up to above 7 miles or more. Hail is often being thrown several miles out of severe convective storms as some aircraft pilots have found out to their cost. The updrafts are so fast that there can be liquid water at 35,000 feet with the normal outside air temperature around minus 50 C - this despite the fact that water droplets and hail are rather obviously significantly heavier than the constituent gases in air So CO2 is similarly carried aloft by convection. Once the CO2 is mixed up by this normal turbulent flow in the atmosphere it will take a LONG time to settle due to its weight alone. Luckily it has assistance - the cold just formed pure water droplets are ideal for CO2 to dissolve in (see Henry's Law) and these carry the CO2 to back to the surface in rain. |
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Post by northsphinx on May 5, 2010 9:45:42 GMT
An atmosphere without any greenhouse gases would be warmer than our present atmosphere. That is a neglected basic fact that is not taking height for in greenhouse calculations.
It is because the well known fact that such an atmosphere is heated and cooled only from the earth surface. Heating is easy because that cause wind and convection. But cooling will make the air to be be stable and with a very inefficient cooling.
Only the first meter of air will be cooled. But the entire atmosphere will be heated.
The average atmosphere temperature will then be closer to earth maximum surface temperature which is rather high.
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Post by poitsplace on May 5, 2010 10:10:38 GMT
and to stop a prior demon from reappearing...I believe northsphinx means an atmosphere that was somehow, magically...without ANY greenhouse capability. Obviously this isn't the case (even nitrogen and oxygen emit faintly).
Getting back to the molar weight thing, let me just throw in for good measure...all the droplets in clouds are a few million moles each, yet they still manage to float along nicely. IF clouds can remain airborne so long, even the slightest amounts of turbulence would cause CO2 to disperse and stay that way for years.
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Post by goldbuster1 on May 5, 2010 10:41:15 GMT
Getting back to the molar weight thing, let me just throw in for good measure...all the droplets in clouds are a few million moles each, yet they still manage to float along nicely. IF clouds can remain airborne so long, even the slightest amounts of turbulence would cause CO2 to disperse and stay that way for years. H2O is 18g per Mol Clouds form because warm air tends to absorb water vapor, which is lighter than air (28g-mol), thus helping the mixture to rise. As it rises the air containing it cools and the vapor tends to condense out of the air as micro-droplets... Water vapour makes air rise...What makes CO2 rise? Convection have the same effects on all elements...CO2 will still be at the bottom of the totem pole. Thats why plants dont grow in altitude. Conclusion: CO2 is not involved in the ficticious Greenhouse effect |
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Post by poitsplace on May 5, 2010 11:17:11 GMT
Look, goldbuster...it was a good attempt but this is and has been well documented for a very long time. CO2 concentration doesn't vary much even at extreme altitudes. Its well known. The data comes from actual measurements and evidence can be seen in the spectrum of the outer atmosphere. Its just a fact you have to deal with. If you don't like it, go back to your chemistry teacher and ask them. Go back to your physics teacher and ask them. Then move on.
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Post by goldbuster1 on May 5, 2010 11:41:55 GMT
CO2 Density : 1.87 kg-m3 Gravity versus air 1.5
H2O Density : 0.75 kg-m3 (vapour) Gravity versus air 0.62
Air Density : 1.2 kg-m3 Gravity 1
Humid air will rise quicker than dry air
CO2 is too heavy to be rising in the atmosphere
Conclusion : CO2 capture will only benefits the Oil and Gas industry
PS: They are already using CO2 injection to extract Oil, they will get some credit to trade at $22 a ton...
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Post by steve on May 5, 2010 14:27:33 GMT
nautonnier said:
goldbuster1, I wouldn't listen to nautonnier. He insults everyone who is cleverer than himself. Of course the laws of physics are the same in the "real world" and in the laboratory.
No need to reply nautonnier. Just a demonstration of how misrepresenting people's arguments is irritating and distracting.
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tsh
Level 2 Rank
Posts: 69
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Post by tsh on May 5, 2010 15:08:11 GMT
nonsense. The atmosphere is not steady-state. All you prove is that your arguments are worthless.
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Post by hunter on May 5, 2010 15:14:10 GMT
Hunter bought CO2 emission scam certificates at the Al Gore state Auction for $5 a ton. He plans to sell it back at the ficticious market value of $22 a ton. So Science 101, Physics 101 and Chemistry 101 dont matter to him. Even if God himself shows up and tell us all it is a scam, he will still percist Parasite, go work to create real assets you Bum! goldbuster, the one consistent theme in your posts so far is ignorance. I am as skeptical as one can be but have not depended on ignorance to point out the failures of AGW theory. I have not traded carbon futures, nor plan to. I post reall science that shows AGW is a failed theory and a destructive social movement. You post idiocratic junk. Learn how the atmosphere works, if you can, before you post at a board where educated people hang out. CO2 is a well mixed gas. The turbulance of the atmosphere keeps it mixed up. The errors scientists have made involves claiming that a climate catastrophe is occurring or going to occur due to CO2. CO2 is not driving the world climate to a crisis. That has nothing to do with CO2 being a ghg. It is a ghg. That is completely proven. Arguing against that only makes you look stupid and by inference other skeptics. I am at work, which has nothing to do with trading carbon futures or climate directly at all, and would invite you to read my posts a bit if you think I am an AGW true believer. If you still do after that, well......  |
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