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Post by sigurdur on May 2, 2021 21:33:20 GMT
Not sure if this is the correct thread but over the last 2 years the SH has been falling in temperature much faster than the NH. If the frequency content of the solar spectrum has reduced UV with a subdued sun rather than a reduction of gross energy emissions, I dispute this actually, but the SH has vastly more ocean surface that will not be warmed so much as a consequence. UV penetrates the surface, not other frequencies. Could this be a sign of the times to come. I read somewhere that the frequency content is biased towards the IR which is instantaneously absorbed at the surface often resulting in the stripping off from the surface of the water some water vapour. More clouds could be the outcome, so less warming, etc. That sounds right Infrared does not heat the ocean it cools it by enhancing the evaporation of the surface layer. UV and visible light can penetrate deep into the ocean and heat it as the radiation is absorbed. So the mix of wavelengths is more important than Total Solar Insolation Agreed |
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Post by missouriboy on May 3, 2021 14:55:36 GMT
From Bermuda to the Azores to Gibraltar, the sub-tropical high pressure ridge is collapsing. Mann ohh Mann.  |
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Post by nautonnier on May 3, 2021 15:05:33 GMT
From Bermuda to the Azores to Gibraltar, the sub-tropical high pressure ridge is collapsing. Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? If it is then the Ferrel Cells and associated weather will all move toward the equator the polar cell circulation will follow and it will get colder in North Europe and North Africa (it is already) from weather reports in the sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. |
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Post by missouriboy on May 3, 2021 15:22:51 GMT
From Bermuda to the Azores to Gibraltar, the sub-tropical high pressure ridge is collapsing. Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? That would seem the safe bet. It seems to be declining most offshore of N. Africa (the Azores). Just watch those southward bound low pressure systems moving through that gap. While winter receives all the attention, summer declines of this magnitude have not been seen since the exit slope of the Dalton minimum. But unlike the CO2 dance troop, we are open to reasonable, documented alternatives. A little more pressure data would be useful.  |
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Post by missouriboy on May 3, 2021 15:45:29 GMT
Has anyone seen a map(s) that show the historical summer movement (placement) and the strength of the Greenland high over timeframes that could be compared to solar cycles? Sig?
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Post by glennkoks on May 3, 2021 20:56:21 GMT
From Bermuda to the Azores to Gibraltar, the sub-tropical high pressure ridge is collapsing. Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? If it is then the Ferrel Cells and associated weather will all move toward the equator the polar cell circulation will follow and it will get colder in North Europe and North Africa (it is already) from weather reports in the sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. That is a good question. According to PNAS an expansion of the Hadley Cells "drive a pattern of global dryness featuring widespread reduction of tropospheric humidity and increased frequency of dry months, particularly over subtropical and tropical land regions." So it would stand to reason a collapse of the Hadley Cells would drive the opposite pattern. www.pnas.org/content/112/12/3630It seems to me the climate is going through a change. Perhaps the opposite of the Pacific climate shift of 1976 that ended decades of cooling? Perhaps something stronger and more abrupt? |
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Post by nautonnier on May 3, 2021 21:35:49 GMT
Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? If it is then the Ferrel Cells and associated weather will all move toward the equator the polar cell circulation will follow and it will get colder in North Europe and North Africa (it is already) from weather reports in the sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. That is a good question. According to PNAS an expansion of the Hadley Cells "drive a pattern of global dryness featuring widespread reduction of tropospheric humidity and increased frequency of dry months, particularly over subtropical and tropical land regions." So it would stand to reason a collapse of the Hadley Cells would drive the opposite pattern. www.pnas.org/content/112/12/3630It seems to me the climate is going through a change. Perhaps the opposite of the Pacific climate shift of 1976 that ended decades of cooling? Perhaps something stronger and more abrupt? I think that you are right - I am not sure I look forward to stronger and more abrupt - although if it isn't more abrupt I may not be around to experience it.  |
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Post by Ratty on May 3, 2021 22:39:29 GMT
Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? If it is then the Ferrel Cells and associated weather will all move toward the equator the polar cell circulation will follow and it will get colder in North Europe and North Africa (it is already) from weather reports in the sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. That is a good question. According to PNAS an expansion of the Hadley Cells "drive a pattern of global dryness featuring widespread reduction of tropospheric humidity and increased frequency of dry months, particularly over subtropical and tropical land regions." So it would stand to reason a collapse of the Hadley Cells would drive the opposite pattern. www.pnas.org/content/112/12/3630It seems to me the climate is going through a change. Perhaps the opposite of the Pacific climate shift of 1976 that ended decades of cooling? Perhaps something stronger and more abrupt? Maybe a Toddler Dryas?  |
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Post by nonentropic on May 3, 2021 22:52:11 GMT
Naut you still have some humour, very good.
So the Hadley cells define the limit of the wet air circulation system. As most water vapour is generated in the tropics are we going to see less rainfall on average. The alternative perspective, lots of water in a narrower Hadley cell region and drizzly crap weather in a wider Ferral region. We in Auckland at latitude 36 hate the winter, less than convincing southwesterly moving to cold drizzle in spring as we wait for the Hadley to slide back down.
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Post by missouriboy on May 3, 2021 23:15:04 GMT
Is this a collapse of the Hadley cells? If it is then the Ferrel Cells and associated weather will all move toward the equator the polar cell circulation will follow and it will get colder in North Europe and North Africa (it is already) from weather reports in the sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. That is a good question. According to PNAS an expansion of the Hadley Cells "drive a pattern of global dryness featuring widespread reduction of tropospheric humidity and increased frequency of dry months, particularly over subtropical and tropical land regions." So it would stand to reason a collapse of the Hadley Cells would drive the opposite pattern. www.pnas.org/content/112/12/3630It seems to me the climate is going through a change. Perhaps the opposite of the Pacific climate shift of 1976 that ended decades of cooling? Perhaps something stronger and more abrupt? You can't read one of these papers without everything being chaulked up to the 0.04% solution (CO2). Couldn't possibly be mostly cyclic changes in our star and other astronaumic forces. In the midwest, shifts into stronger solar cycles (like the Great climate shift of 1976) resulted in a wetter overall climate. There may have been a similar shift that occurred about 1935. Similar length of time ... and right on time for a big drop in the very near future. It looks like the drop in precipitation that occurred in the 1930s on the backside of solar cycle 16 may be similar to our current setup ... although then, the following cycle (SC17) was a big one, versus SC25, which looks more like another low cycle like SC24. A colder atmosphere should hold less moisture? Sure looks like our current cooling is wringing out copious amounts of moisture along various edges around the world. The Western US drought is growing in extent and intensity and La Nina may have a strong second half. I'd be willing to bet that CO2 (4 parts in 10,000) has very little to do with it. And yes, this "could" be a very large, abrupt shift. What did SC 6 (1810-23) look like following the low SC5? They did start from a cooler base but ...  |
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Post by missouriboy on May 3, 2021 23:20:27 GMT
That is a good question. According to PNAS an expansion of the Hadley Cells "drive a pattern of global dryness featuring widespread reduction of tropospheric humidity and increased frequency of dry months, particularly over subtropical and tropical land regions." So it would stand to reason a collapse of the Hadley Cells would drive the opposite pattern. www.pnas.org/content/112/12/3630It seems to me the climate is going through a change. Perhaps the opposite of the Pacific climate shift of 1976 that ended decades of cooling? Perhaps something stronger and more abrupt? Maybe a Toddler Dryas? Dryas was a shortening for dry ass. Thus, the 40-year Midwest wet period from 1976 could be called a Wetas.  Here is our mascot.  |
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Post by sigurdur on May 4, 2021 2:08:09 GMT
Has anyone seen a map(s) that show the historical summer movement (placement) and the strength of the Greenland high over timeframes that could be compared to solar cycles? Sig? I don't have any data. It's placement is something I watch every year. To date, it isn't migrating. Is why the 8-14 day forecast looks cold. www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/index.php |
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Post by missouriboy on May 4, 2021 3:10:40 GMT
Has anyone seen a map(s) that show the historical summer movement (placement) and the strength of the Greenland high over timeframes that could be compared to solar cycles? Sig? I don't have any data. It's placement is something I watch every year. To date, it isn't migrating. Is why the 8-14 day forecast looks cold. www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/index.phpMay be helping to keep us wet though. Hope that western drought doesn't backfill into the central midwest. |
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Post by nautonnier on May 4, 2021 13:05:56 GMT
Has anyone seen a map(s) that show the historical summer movement (placement) and the strength of the Greenland high over timeframes that could be compared to solar cycles? Sig? I don't have any data. It's placement is something I watch every year. To date, it isn't migrating. Is why the 8-14 day forecast looks cold. www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/index.phpNice to be in the warm dry  |
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Post by missouriboy on May 5, 2021 19:59:09 GMT
Nice to be in the warm dry Florida is dry? |
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