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Post by slh1234 on Jul 27, 2020 13:32:44 GMT
Possibly. However; I had shingles, and yet it was still recommended I get the shingles vaccine. We have flu shots every year due to mutations and new strains of the flu. We don't yet know if this is how it will be with these types of coronaviri. In the discussion I'm reading on SARS-CoV-2, we're still not sure how long the immunity lasts. There's a lot of speculation and many hypotheses, but no hard evidence to date. Well if the immunity doesn't last long - there's no need waiting for a vaccine unless they want to give a booster every 2 months. May as well accept the impact and everyone back to work It depends, and I think you understand what I mean. In some cases or with some illnesses, immunity may only last a couple of months. In others, maybe it's a year or more. The point remains that nobody really knows at this point. That point followed from what I said about the venal explanation not making sense to me and one reason being that people who have had the disease will still most likely get the vaccine. That is still most likely to be true.
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Post by flearider on Jul 27, 2020 20:15:30 GMT
i do not and will not take a flue shot .. i will not take a covid shot .. my lad has not even had mmr shot .. there is a natural order to things.. get sick and recover or get sick and die .. at the rate we are going we will have so many weak genes running round that a future virus which would have been at most like covid ..will nearly wipe out the human race .. there are to many old people around (yes i'm getting there ) so is this not a way for nature(or the goverment) to rebalance/cull the heard ? do you use band-aids? don't be silly blue roll or bog roll ... i've even super glued a bad cut shut till after work .. hard no .. just can't afford time off
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Post by slh1234 on Jul 27, 2020 22:58:32 GMT
I've had the flu shot every year since I first joined the military in the early 1980s. Most of the time, the reason I do that is the reason you say you've super-glued a cut shut: I can't afford time off. (I've had a few where I woke up with someone sewing my head up - didn't have the option to super-glue that. I did go back to work the same day, but was limited in what I was allowed to do).
I have not had the flu a single time since starting the flu shot. I know they can't include every possible flu strain every year, so there is always the possibility of having it, but I just haven't. Contrast that with a (now deceased) uncle who refused the flu shot every year, but always missed work time almost every year for it. The flu shot sounded like a great trade-off compared to that.
It's a free country. I'm not going to tell someone they must get a shot. I just don't understand it.
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 27, 2020 23:55:52 GMT
don't be silly blue roll or bog roll ... i've even super glued a bad cut shut till after work .. hard no .. just can't afford time off I am quoting here from memory so correct me if I'm wrong. But the greatest boon to human longevity and numbers have largely accrued from improvements in basic nutrition (quantity and availability) and very basic medicine (basic hygiene-sanitation and simple medical intervention). The results were a huge drop in infant mortality, death in childbirth and deaths from simple infections (example: you didn't have a 50% chance of dying if you broke a leg). In the US, these were still major problems into the late 1800s. Two-thirds of the deaths in the American Civil War among healthy young males were from disease and infection. However, my male ancestors regularly lived into their 80s with little medical intervention. Seems right to assume that, for better or worse depending on your perception, that the scale of medical intervention (above and beyond simple medical procedures) are prolonging at great social cost (not a judgement ... merely a statement of fact) the lives of the old and the abnormally medically challenged ... genetic problems are amongst these. Don't know if we are accumulating a "weaker" gene pool because of such interventions. Could be if "weaker" genes reproduce when formerly they didn't live long enough to. But lifestyles may also result in genetic deterioration (OK, tear me up on that one ). I see a lot of abnormal abominations walking the streets ... but that may be age talking. I think that my parents said the same thing about my friends. You may be right Flea, but I see no easy way to prove it. Perhaps if we just let Covid run its course without intervention, then we would have a better look at that. Does most of the population have the "guts" to actually do that? Doubtful. They ran for the countryside when the Black Death showed up in England. Didn't do them any good ... but they ran anyway. The survivors repopulated the country over a couple of hundred years. Were they genetically stronger for the experience? I cannot answer that. But there are a lot of SNPs whose branches have been truncated. Whole genetic lines were terminated. Were they the weakest? Or just the unluckiest?
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 28, 2020 0:17:31 GMT
I've had the flu shot every year since I first joined the military in the early 1980s. Most of the time, the reason I do that is the reason you say you've super-glued a cut shut: I can't afford time off. (I've had a few where I woke up with someone sewing my head up - didn't have the option to super-glue that. I did go back to work the same day, but was limited in what I was allowed to do). I have not had the flu a single time since starting the flu shot. I know they can't include every possible flu strain every year, so there is always the possibility of having it, but I just haven't. Contrast that with a (now deceased) uncle who refused the flu shot every year, but always missed work time almost every year for it. The flu shot sounded like a great trade-off compared to that. It's a free country. I'm not going to tell someone they must get a shot. I just don't understand it. I had all the standard childhood shots, tetanus and various others. So I don't have anything against vaccinations. But I have never had a flu shot and, to my knowledge, I have never had a detectable case of the flu. I think I had a norovirus once. As I get older I should probably start taking them, but it would be interesting to see if I have some personal immunity ... if they can even test for that. I also don't get many colds.
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Post by youngjasper on Jul 28, 2020 0:36:12 GMT
Caution - Sample size = 1. I've not ever had a flu shot. I've had the flu twice in my lifetime. Last time was two years ago when the grand kids that stay with us after school (if it goes back into session!) both had it. It was only two days and very mild, but it was definitely the flu. My wife and I try to eat very well (wine and whisky are the exceptions), exercise, etc., but with the grand kids, the bugs will come. No Covid 19 yet, and we are not afraid of it at all. It seems it is losing potency, as the two people I now know that have had it recently both said it was no big deal. YMMV.
Not-so-young-jasper
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Post by glennkoks on Jul 28, 2020 1:13:49 GMT
i do not and will not take a flue shot .. i will not take a covid shot .. my lad has not even had mmr shot .. there is a natural order to things.. get sick and recover or get sick and die .. at the rate we are going we will have so many weak genes running round that a future virus which would have been at most like covid ..will nearly wipe out the human race .. there are to many old people around (yes i'm getting there ) so is this not a way for nature(or the goverment) to rebalance/cull the heard ? Polio, measles, smallpox and plenty more diseases that were once fatal have been eradicated. Personally I am thrilled that Alexander Fleming discovered antibiotics and no a horrible death does not have to be the "natural order to things" anymore.
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Post by Ratty on Jul 28, 2020 1:50:13 GMT
Another good discussion. I've been having the flu shots since I can't remember when; also can't remember having a serious dose of the flu ever. Famous last w ..... ?
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 28, 2020 5:56:39 GMT
Another good discussion. I've been having the flu shots since I can't remember when; also can't remember having a serious dose of the flu ever. Famous last w ..... ? Your blend mixer must be quite good ... OR your T cells are dobermans .... I've been trying to find some of those to unleash on Twitter.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 28, 2020 10:16:23 GMT
There are two ways of looking at this neither of them good.... 'medical explanation' - At the start of the real pandemic everyone was considering COVID-19 as purely a respiratory disease of the lungs. Some doctors only used HCQ when it was really too late to use it. After they started HCQ the patient had blood clotting problems kidney problems and heart arythmia, strokes and heart attacks. Those cannot be the result of a respiratory disease THEREFORE HCQ causes (choose any 2 or 3) blood clotting problems kidney problems and heart arrhythmia, strokes and heart attacks. Ban the use of HCQ because of these side effects! The ban on HCQ continued despite solid evidence that these problems were caused by SARS-CoV-2, indeed you will STILL hear the occasional talking head claiming these are 'the side effects of HCQ'. I am amazed at the ignorance of doctors about the disease of the century. Venal Explanation The medical and pharma community stand to make a fortune literally tens of $billions from vaccinations and other treatments. (A different way of delivering interferon to the lungs that may reduce symptoms in 70% (HCQ/zinc cures >90%) has made the three UK doctors running the small company millionaires over night - would they say no use HCQ/Zinc it's cheaper?) The media is also all against HCQ and for expensive less effective drugs. So a directive has been put out saying don't prescribe HCQ even if a doctor asks for it this was the directive from the governors of several states and some 'high street' pharmacies have had directions from their management. There should be a medical inquiry into this as it is apparent that many people died due this and other decisions. The lack of 'scientific' governance in the medical world is astounding. I don't think the Venal Explanation makes sense, business nor otherwise. The bottom line is we don't have a vaccine right now. People treated with HCQ would still need a vaccine later, so that would just be market preservation. People treated with HCQ who recover would still get the vaccine later. If governors are putting out orders to not fill prescriptions, then it won't be long until the whistle is blown especially by doctors such as the one involved in the message I initially posted on this - it would be political suicide for governors and would go well beyond just the governor. So now this Reprisal for saving lives? What kind of doctors would do that?
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Post by nemesis on Jul 28, 2020 11:16:58 GMT
From memory there were some nasty side effects reported from the Swine flu jab including narcolepsy. I would be wary of being one of the first Guinea pigs for the Covid jab. I have doubts about it being the panacea people think. Nature always seems to find a way of fighting back. Having said that, I have been randomly picked to try out the blood prick home testing kit.(UK). Initial reservations about being on data lists but decided to go ahead. Cant think of much harm from participating unless you knowledgeable people think otherwise.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 28, 2020 12:23:52 GMT
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Post by Ratty on Jul 28, 2020 12:37:24 GMT
From memory there were some nasty side effects reported from the Swine flu jab including narcolepsy. I would be wary of being one of the first Guinea pigs for the Covid jab. I have doubts about it being the panacea people think. Nature always seems to find a way of fighting back. Having said that, I have been randomly picked to try out the blood prick home testing kit.(UK). Initial reservations about being on data lists but decided to go ahead. Cant think of much harm from participating unless you knowledgeable people think otherwise. I'm sure you'll be OK, Nemesis .... Jeremy Corbyn developed the selection criteria.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 28, 2020 13:19:43 GMT
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Post by phydeaux2363 on Jul 28, 2020 14:09:53 GMT
Another good discussion. I've been having the flu shots since I can't remember when; also can't remember having a serious dose of the flu ever. Famous last w ..... ? Just to add my two cents before I lose that money in the coming financial debacle; I had the flu once when i was in my late 40s. It was awful! The worst headache I ever had, fatigue to the point of having to crawl to the toilet, and muscle aches that felt like they were inflicted by by an Irish Special Branch cop convincing an IRA member of the error of his ways. That said, I was getting the flu shot every year until this year, after I got the first of two doses of shingles vaccine. Now that shingles shot put me to bed for three days with a 102 fever. I didn't take the second one, and my doctor didn't argue. Still, I'm in favor of vaccines, especially those for the traditional childhood diseases that put most of us on this board to bed as kids, and for diseases like tetanus, smallpox and polio, where the benefits are very high for very low risk. Now for something in the WSJ that caught my eye, "Researchers plan to enroll 30,000 people in each of two clinical trials which will determine whether the vaccine protects against SYMPTOMATIC COVID 19 . . . . " (emphasis added) Am I just paranoid, or does the use of the word symptomatic in that sentence potentially have great significance? Will I start hearing that, even after vaccinations, we still have to mask and social distance because we don't know if the vaccine protects against asymptomatic COVID?
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