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Post by acidohm on Jul 26, 2020 15:01:54 GMT
The thing you want to do if a contagion is spreading amongst a population, is test as many people as possible. Agreed. So who here has gotten a call from their state/county/city health department telling them they've been randomly selected to be screened? Who is from an area where the *entire* population has been screened? Which country has the resources to do an entire population?
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 26, 2020 15:45:14 GMT
The thing you want to do if a contagion is spreading amongst a population, is test as many people as possible. Agreed. So who here has gotten a call from their state/county/city health department telling them they've been randomly selected to be screened? Who is from an area where the *entire* population has been screened? You feel fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have pollen in your nasal cavity Do you have hayfever? The answer is obviously not as you have no symptoms but you do have various pollen grains in your nose That is analogous to feeling fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes or fever. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have SARS-CoV-2 particles in your nasal cavity Do you have COVID-19? The answer these days would be yes a positive case of COVID-19. And with Public Health England, a check will be made a month later to see if you are still alive. If not - regardless that you died after being run over by a bus - you will be recorded as a COVID-19 death. Medical metrology is a sham
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Post by walnut on Jul 26, 2020 16:13:43 GMT
In 2018, a typical flu year- not a particularly bad one, Oklahoma had 291 flu deaths. So far, the 2020 "pandemic" has caused 496 deaths. All this, business closures, escalation of national debt, bankruptcies, loss of liberty and freedom, for that??
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Post by slh1234 on Jul 26, 2020 17:37:23 GMT
My question is "what if the person just pays out of pocket." I was given an example where that was also refused. I have a cousin and a former student who are pharmacists. I am following up with those angles to see what their answer is. There are two ways of looking at this neither of them good.... 'medical explanation' - At the start of the real pandemic everyone was considering COVID-19 as purely a respiratory disease of the lungs. Some doctors only used HCQ when it was really too late to use it. After they started HCQ the patient had blood clotting problems kidney problems and heart arythmia, strokes and heart attacks. Those cannot be the result of a respiratory disease THEREFORE HCQ causes (choose any 2 or 3) blood clotting problems kidney problems and heart arrhythmia, strokes and heart attacks. Ban the use of HCQ because of these side effects! The ban on HCQ continued despite solid evidence that these problems were caused by SARS-CoV-2, indeed you will STILL hear the occasional talking head claiming these are 'the side effects of HCQ'. I am amazed at the ignorance of doctors about the disease of the century. Venal Explanation The medical and pharma community stand to make a fortune literally tens of $billions from vaccinations and other treatments. (A different way of delivering interferon to the lungs that may reduce symptoms in 70% (HCQ/zinc cures >90%) has made the three UK doctors running the small company millionaires over night - would they say no use HCQ/Zinc it's cheaper?) The media is also all against HCQ and for expensive less effective drugs. So a directive has been put out saying don't prescribe HCQ even if a doctor asks for it this was the directive from the governors of several states and some 'high street' pharmacies have had directions from their management. There should be a medical inquiry into this as it is apparent that many people died due this and other decisions. The lack of 'scientific' governance in the medical world is astounding. I don't think the Venal Explanation makes sense, business nor otherwise. The bottom line is we don't have a vaccine right now. People treated with HCQ would still need a vaccine later, so that would just be market preservation. People treated with HCQ who recover would still get the vaccine later. If governors are putting out orders to not fill prescriptions, then it won't be long until the whistle is blown especially by doctors such as the one involved in the message I initially posted on this - it would be political suicide for governors and would go well beyond just the governor.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 26, 2020 18:14:10 GMT
I think you will find that people with COVID-19 and symptoms will have created antibodies and memory T and b-cells so they would both be treated with HCQ stopping the progression of the disease but they would be as immune as if they had been given the vaccine.
That does raise an issue about vaccine testing if they give the test vaccine to someone who has unknowingly/asymptomatically had COVID-19 say in March so active antibodies are low, they will get a huge very rapid antibody response and be cheering and clapping about how good the vaccine is but the real reason is that the subject was already functionally immune to SARS-CoV-2. I wonder if anyone is checking to see if patients have had COVID-19 or even a corona virus cold so their adaptive immune system is not naive to the SARS-CoV-2 virus?
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Post by acidohm on Jul 26, 2020 18:21:09 GMT
Agreed. So who here has gotten a call from their state/county/city health department telling them they've been randomly selected to be screened? Who is from an area where the *entire* population has been screened? You feel fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have pollen in your nasal cavity Do you have hayfever? The answer is obviously not as you have no symptoms but you do have various pollen grains in your nose That is analogous to feeling fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes or fever. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have SARS-CoV-2 particles in your nasal cavity Do you have COVID-19? The answer these days would be yes a positive case of COVID-19. And with Public Health England, a check will be made a month later to see if you are still alive. If not - regardless that you died after being run over by a bus - you will be recorded as a COVID-19 death. Medical metrology is a sham Over 6,000,000,000 +ve tests worldwide. If someone makes a mistake, it doesnt negate the other 5,999,999,999. I am aware of the motorcyclist, but if we consider an alternate world to one where conspiracies feed off tidbits of info. IF theres a healthcare issue caused by a virus affecting millions to some degree, isnt there bound to be discrepancies due to human error? To make it clear, i am fence sitting. Im aware of the situation but don't feel its reasonable to declare mal-intent at this point. A virus will do things, so far, covid is consistent yet elusive to describe in entirety. Its the detail of the description we need to understand, not blame its nuances on human intervention. At this point i think thats a mistake. Ill feel happier once US doesn't have a healthcare issue soon. Monitoring as best as possible.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 26, 2020 18:25:24 GMT
In 2018, a typical flu year- not a particularly bad one, Oklahoma had 291 flu deaths. So far, the 2020 "pandemic" has caused 496 deaths. All this, business closures, escalation of national debt, bankruptcies, loss of liberty and freedom, for that?? But, if no mitigating measures were taken what would the outcome be?? We'll never know, but hypothetically you're cross because the authorities prevented a worse scenario?? Prior flu deaths were when no measures were taken to prevent spread other then 50% effective vaccine in a portion of the population.
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 26, 2020 18:41:36 GMT
You feel fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have pollen in your nasal cavity Do you have hayfever? The answer is obviously not as you have no symptoms but you do have various pollen grains in your nose That is analogous to feeling fine no coughing sneezing watery eyes or fever. You get randomly tested and the result is that you have SARS-CoV-2 particles in your nasal cavity Do you have COVID-19? The answer these days would be yes a positive case of COVID-19. And with Public Health England, a check will be made a month later to see if you are still alive. If not - regardless that you died after being run over by a bus - you will be recorded as a COVID-19 death. Medical metrology is a sham Over 6,000,000,000 +ve tests worldwide. If someone makes a mistake, it doesnt negate the other 5,999,999,999. I am aware of the motorcyclist, but if we consider an alternate world to one where conspiracies feed off tidbits of info. IF theres a healthcare issue caused by a virus affecting millions to some degree, isnt there bound to be discrepancies due to human error? To make it clear, i am fence sitting. Im aware of the situation but don't feel its reasonable to declare mal-intent at this point. A virus will do things, so far, covid is consistent yet elusive to describe in entirety. Its the detail of the description we need to understand, not blame its nuances on human intervention. At this point i think thats a mistake. Ill feel happier once US doesn't have a healthcare issue soon. Monitoring as best as possible. I am watching > the test figures here change by an order of magnitude from 90% positive to 9.8% positive > CDC conflating positive serological antibody tests with positive PCR tests for virus in the sunbelt states - amazing the number of positives . > Reporting of total case numbers and total death numbers but no daily numbers (as they would give the wrong narrative) > Col Deborah Birx USAF (Retd) saying that none of the statistics reported by the CDC can be trusted (she put it stronger as befits someone ex military) Do you have a disease if you have no symptoms and cannot pass on the 'infection' but a super-sensitive PCR test can detect a few dead viruses in your nose? I am beginning to side with the cynics who are saying it will all be over by Christmas as the US election and BREXIT will have been settled by then. The CFR does not justify the frenzy but the political usefulness is significant.
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Post by walnut on Jul 26, 2020 19:02:45 GMT
In 2018, a typical flu year- not a particularly bad one, Oklahoma had 291 flu deaths. So far, the 2020 "pandemic" has caused 496 deaths. All this, business closures, escalation of national debt, bankruptcies, loss of liberty and freedom, for that?? But, if no mitigating measures were taken what would the outcome be?? We'll never know, but hypothetically you're cross because the authorities prevented a worse scenario?? Prior flu deaths were when no measures were taken to prevent spread other then 50% effective vaccine in a portion of the population. We had not done much in Oklahoma. Relatively weak measures. Lately it seems that the Tulsa mayor convinced himself that he could get away with a mask order politically. Election is coming up, we'll know soon how it worked out for him.
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Post by acidohm on Jul 26, 2020 19:04:54 GMT
If its all over by xmas then thats a win 👍🏻
Hoping for the best, fearing for the worst.
It was easier to sort the info wheat from the chaff earlier on in February, although there was little decent info.
Now its worse then climate rows, lots of "info" and many agendas. Quick post on twatter and everyone is swayed 🤷🏼♂️.
I don't like grey areas, something is either the truth or it isn't.
I know viruses exist, i think things like viral load and asymptomatic spread are at least misunderstood, at worst a mystery regarding Covid.
Can't account for data manipulation in this time frame. Too big a grey area.
Indecisiveness or continuing analysis, whichever, is something i can afford but policy makers can't. I only have to look after my family, while at the same time, nothing i do affects the policy makers.
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Post by slh1234 on Jul 27, 2020 0:34:39 GMT
I think you will find that people with COVID-19 and symptoms will have created antibodies and memory T and b-cells so they would both be treated with HCQ stopping the progression of the disease but they would be as immune as if they had been given the vaccine. That does raise an issue about vaccine testing if they give the test vaccine to someone who has unknowingly/asymptomatically had COVID-19 say in March so active antibodies are low, they will get a huge very rapid antibody response and be cheering and clapping about how good the vaccine is but the real reason is that the subject was already functionally immune to SARS-CoV-2. I wonder if anyone is checking to see if patients have had COVID-19 or even a corona virus cold so their adaptive immune system is not naive to the SARS-CoV-2 virus? Possibly. However; I had shingles, and yet it was still recommended I get the shingles vaccine. We have flu shots every year due to mutations and new strains of the flu. We don't yet know if this is how it will be with these types of coronaviri. In the discussion I'm reading on SARS-CoV-2, we're still not sure how long the immunity lasts. There's a lot of speculation and many hypotheses, but no hard evidence to date.
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Post by tobyglyn on Jul 27, 2020 1:38:44 GMT
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Post by nautonnier on Jul 27, 2020 2:57:02 GMT
I think you will find that people with COVID-19 and symptoms will have created antibodies and memory T and b-cells so they would both be treated with HCQ stopping the progression of the disease but they would be as immune as if they had been given the vaccine. That does raise an issue about vaccine testing if they give the test vaccine to someone who has unknowingly/asymptomatically had COVID-19 say in March so active antibodies are low, they will get a huge very rapid antibody response and be cheering and clapping about how good the vaccine is but the real reason is that the subject was already functionally immune to SARS-CoV-2. I wonder if anyone is checking to see if patients have had COVID-19 or even a corona virus cold so their adaptive immune system is not naive to the SARS-CoV-2 virus? Possibly. However; I had shingles, and yet it was still recommended I get the shingles vaccine. We have flu shots every year due to mutations and new strains of the flu. We don't yet know if this is how it will be with these types of coronaviri. In the discussion I'm reading on SARS-CoV-2, we're still not sure how long the immunity lasts. There's a lot of speculation and many hypotheses, but no hard evidence to date. Well if the immunity doesn't last long - there's no need waiting for a vaccine unless they want to give a booster every 2 months. May as well accept the impact and everyone back to work
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Post by flearider on Jul 27, 2020 5:21:24 GMT
i do not and will not take a flue shot .. i will not take a covid shot .. my lad has not even had mmr shot .. there is a natural order to things.. get sick and recover or get sick and die .. at the rate we are going we will have so many weak genes running round that a future virus which would have been at most like covid ..will nearly wipe out the human race .. there are to many old people around (yes i'm getting there ) so is this not a way for nature(or the goverment) to rebalance/cull the heard ?
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Post by gridley on Jul 27, 2020 12:25:49 GMT
Agreed. So who here has gotten a call from their state/county/city health department telling them they've been randomly selected to be screened? Who is from an area where the *entire* population has been screened? Which country has the resources to do an entire population? I said "area" not "country." Randomly pick twenty counties in the US. Sample everyone there who doesn't actively object. We would, for the first time, START to have accurate data on the spread of this. As for resources... this pandemic is supposedly so dangerous that we're willing to crash entire economies - but we don't have the resources to test people to see if they have it? Really?
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