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Puzzle
Mar 21, 2010 10:17:41 GMT
Post by karlox on Mar 21, 2010 10:17:41 GMT
So what evidence are you talking about? Smarter guys than you who believe in AGW figured out the answer to that. . . .the need to invent a piltdown man to show the longterm monotonic natural warming does not exist and to manufacture evidence where none existed. Problem with these "smart guys" is they are dumb as thieves and left an email trail to their conspiratorial conversations. More judgements based on nothing... It's a habit of you I see. We can summarize it nice and easily (correct me if I'm wrong): All climate science is a piltdown man and an evil conspiracy, and all AGW proponents are dumb, ignorant, dishonest morons. So it is totally no use discussing climate science with you if you have such an attitude towards it and people who are proponents of AGW. I'm glad not everybody here on this board has such an attitude. I would kindly suggest that you all guys quit making such direct personal crossed references like if we were watching a TV Debate among two politicians running for some post or office Nowadays behind and in front of any ´idea´ or political or social debate and movements, as currently being shown to the great public there is a very simplistic approach, that´s the one we call marketing, Publicity, Propaganda... AGW is therefore reduced to simple estatements such as ´A Global Mean Temperature Rise is ocurring due to mankind activity increasing atmospheric CO2 levels´ and next the list of associated natural disasters that might or might not take place, both options covered by the theory many cases... (That´s a good bet indeed) And for the other side -the ´skeptics´- they happily joined the game, which I regard as being in this side as heavily polluted and controlled by certain economic and political powers and interest as AGW movement currently is. Nobody either side AGW or skeptics can´t see it? This would be a positive starting point for discussion, a sign of independent minded people. Next try to keep it as ´scientifically´ as possible -the discussion itself. As for my opinion -not scientific neither technical- there are too many questions and problems to be answered, too much room for new knowledge... And we -general public- need Boards and Threads such as this one to get to see a broader picture of the Scientific discussion, which is being hidden by the politica unrest and confrontation. Warming or Cooling, Red or Blue, Black or White... there are in fact two different simplistic proposals for mankind -economic and political responses- to what coming geoestrategic world´s map is likely showing... The ´Keep on Growing Model by All Means´ is the real point of the discussion. Global Mean Temperature means in fact nearly nothing the way it is being used as a big headline to call for people´s attention.
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Post by karlox on Mar 12, 2010 7:20:29 GMT
Actually, the response to AGW will save someone loads of paychecks. IF in doubt, look at Spain, or even California. Seems their "solution" has enabled their unemployment to exceed 20% in some areas. Just think of all the savings!!!!! (please ignore the economic impact of not signing paychecks) Sigurdur, First time I´ve heard or read that Spain´s Pro Clean Energies policies were a major cause of our unbearable unemployment rate; even from our oposition´s parties -both to the right or left of the political spectrum- and being very critic with Zapatero´s Government´s economic policies such direct claim was never done to my knowledge Facts which may establish some key clues for a more accurate analysis on Spain´s economic crisis would be: - Changes in legislation regarding building requirements and land availability, letting free every city town or village in this country to decide were and how much to build; consequently farm-lands, natural protected territories and some of our scarce forest were devastaded by a building-madness lobby in close complicity with local politicians from all parties... Corruption and a big Housing bubble economie which we all knew one day would explode. -millions of people working and living from the outstanding building wave of mainly second-residence and touristic type apartments everywhere inland and -above all- shoreland properties. -Millions of people getting 30-40-50y mortgages covering up to 120% of propertíes market value. -Housing prices increases of 5,10,15 and up to 20% per year (good to invest in houses, everybody thought) -Little or no care about enviroment or the future for "our children" just greed and greed everywhere. And next you know: international finantial crisis shaking our countries basements, domino´s effect and the bubble exploded... -nowadays first House seller´s in Spain are the Banks which are desperately trying to sell out the properties unwillingly coming back to them due to increasing debtors due to jobs lost. I could go on telling you how much energetically dependant we are, how sensible to possible oil prices increases our economy is... Yes, we are getting inot a new type of economy which encourages clean energies investments and researches, windmills production peaked up to over 30% of our energy consumption some days... it´s not cheap but it´s getting cheaper and both wind and sun are free... It´s a long-term investments, doing things rights for one time and not just seeking a rapid enrichment. This is not the solution to our short-term probles indeed; but I can´t hardly see how could it be as bad to us as to explain our unbearable unemployment rate, affecting especially inmigrants from Africa and Sout America that came by millions under the irresistible glow of our unsustainable growth based in house building during these past 15 years.
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 9:28:11 GMT
Eduardo has political beliefs similar to mine. He is independent and does not trust government in all forms. I do not know political parties in Spain or Argentina. If he were in US he would not be Democrat or Republican. It´s not that we shouldn´t have political beliefs but rather that we should be able to keep such thoughts -as being mostly prejudice thinking any case- away for the pursuing of knowledge. In that sense I like the word ´independence´ meaning people here in Spain or in USA or Argentina that are able to question reality and politicians talks and gestures regardless they might even be nominally close to our own positions. And now... Is global warming accelarating? (tricky tricky thread and topic, seems somehow a call for ´deniers´ only, don´t you think?)
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:53:35 GMT
Thanks for this too. I´ve got now enough stuff to keep me occupied for a while... promise to tell you what I can find trustworthy here and what I just can´t; report being named ´the Fraud of Global Warming Theory´ is a good headline but makes me not very optimistic about the political independence of it.
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:45:07 GMT
thanks scpg02! I´ll check these both for sure. PS: My on line dictionary showed at first that ´bummer´ was synonimous of ´tedious´ which made me very very sad . This is my daily English-practice session as well, not many chances to practice it and I love playing with words in english... but that can be misunderstood sometimes, my positions are serious indeed.
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:38:26 GMT
I edit my profile and simply can´t find any LOCATION tab... Global Moderator help! Finally made it! That´s what a susscefull research brings forth! Need peer-to-peer review) Thanks and let´s go back to topic now ;D
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:33:20 GMT
I edit my profile and simply can´t find any LOCATION tab... Global Moderator help!
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:25:23 GMT
That doesn´t sound very nice, but I´m probably wrong... should I expect any further argumentation?
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:18:48 GMT
unable to introduce my location in my profile... believe it? (so you´d better don´t trust solidity of my lucubrations, can´t even edit a profile... :-)
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:12:23 GMT
Madrid, Spain
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 8:11:19 GMT
Kindly awaiting for my Sentence, in my final allegation-declaration I beg for your understanding since I am not an English native-speaker...
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Post by karlox on Mar 9, 2010 7:59:22 GMT
I must confess before the AGW Inquisition Great Jury that I currently bear some positions close to the heretic gang blamed and named as ´Deniers´, opinions and doubts which were not present in my clear and pure AGW and fully Ecologist soul prior to the finding of these Forum and threads withing SolarCycle24.com
I confess as well -this time before this heretic gang of yours which I´ve had humbly joined - that simplifying discussions in excess, mixing concepts such as climate and weather, continously introducing your own political ideas likes-dislikes hates and preferences with what we should above all try to keep as a logical and scientifically based discussion in order to prevail over some AGW´s manipulation, does not help your-mine ´cause´ as now me might be suscessfully reproducing what we are honestly critizicing: manipulation, alarmism and propaganda.
To let you all know -my new ´deniers´friends- which were the key points that turned my mind from being a Warmist Freak into heretics:
- If unable to explain what exactly induced recent climate oscillations within Mankind History, such as Medieval Optimum followed by Little Ice Age -ask Icelandics Vikings, someone wisely said here- If unable, furthermore, to predict next coming climate ´natural´oscillation... and admitting -as we now know- that such changes might sharply take place within only a few years or decades... How can we then make founded predictions on Global Temperature Trends for the next decades?
-When it warms somewhere it cools somewhere nearby... that´s all my ´scientific´background and knowledge -I admit it´s not much- but... what do we all and AL mean by Global (mean) Temperature rise or decrease?
It´s quite clear to me that for different opinions held in this Forum by different people, many of us do not really know and understand what and how is it really being measured as to get to a simple two digits figure that we take and swear in as a Global Temperature Reference which allows us -gods of knowledge- to predict a 1C, 2C or -2C temps increase or decrease in the next decades ... and that -we the people- really don´t even know what it would mean in case someone´s right, and for sure someone´s right!.. since we are covering all possible bets and got nearly all the Lottery tickets here, someone´s must be right... -AGW is not as much a Great Conspiracy but rather the coverup of the big geostrategic political game we are playing against ´uncontrolled´ emerging China and others. And worst of all: it won´t work .
Simple ideas and scares such as Global Warming or ´Obama´s turning us into Socialism´ or ´being now on the verge of a new Ice-Age´ are suppossedly easier to ´sell´to the great public for its more convenient manipulation than explaining people a much more complex scenario which surely bears economic, political, scientific and social arguments and data for just trying to predict ´how we all will be and do within just a few years´ what -in my opinion- is really worrying and not due to temps supposed raises indeed.
Best thing we can do is question everything, ask for answers, demand them, and above all think, think and think by ourselves and learn to discriminate solid-ground based opinions, unpolluted by politics, from manipulations from either side... (this is valid for xtreme ´deniers´as well for xtreme AGWs)
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Post by karlox on Mar 4, 2010 8:37:22 GMT
Regardless how much I admire and like USA and its people, I would say that American Democracy and electoral system could be graded not higher thata ´C´class (just ´pass´) compared to other democracies round the world. The entire system seems to be designed to leave out of the game the outstanding variety and colourful political approaches and believes of its people. The electoral game is being played with ´marked cards´ too, leaving great room for ´conspirancies´ coming from certain elites within both major political parties and associated pressure groups (lobbies). There are many -both within and outside USA- who believe that latest Presidential elections, and some other in the past, have been manipulated either by preventing or making it really hard for certain voter´s profile to exercise their vote or even by direct electoral rigging in key States such as Florida, Ohio, etc. Nowadays computerized elections theorically were put forward to discard old relic vote systems in some states which had been proved to be, and thus kept, as a good mean for distorsion of the elector´s choice (between Donald Duck and Bugs Bunny or alike, most of the times, anyway) but if you -the people- don´t press to correct it (computer voter´s machines possible manipulations) they will come out being just a much more updated and sophisticated mean for fixing elections. Certainly Conspiracies do play a major role in the American electoral system, to my knowledge
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Post by karlox on Mar 2, 2010 8:44:23 GMT
"How fragile we are..."
Sad to watch how even much more politically and socially developped countries -even consolidated democracies, still so scarce in our world- collapse once nature´s forces strike so hard... Someone´s got any founded data establishing some type of connection between current Earth´s sismic and volcanic activity and current trend-status of our Magnetic field and shield and/or Solar activity in the past recent years? I remember reading through this forums theories pointing in that direction. Now my perception is that both sismic and volcanic events are hitting harder lately, including related phenomena such as Tsunamis, we would now be perhaps -saddly enough- in the right time to measure and evaluate this possibility more deeply; but for this ´personal perceptions´ are not valid nor scientific, I think. Would like to have someone´s more founded opinion than mine...
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Post by karlox on Feb 24, 2010 21:51:06 GMT
Stranger: "It all sounds very Francoish to me. But my Jewish friend still has has her prison camp number and she is convinced they will be Belsen all over again" My father´s plane was shot down by German´s antiaircraft artillery within Spanish Territory turing Spanish Civil War... prior to WWII. He was put before a Martial Court and was redeemed from death penalty last minute (that´s mainly the reason why you all have to withstand me here, otherwise I wouldn´t be) So tell your jewish friend to come here to Spain and stay living here with us, she is more than welcome.... no concentration camps here... ( ay ay ay... this Obama... he´s probably not even an American native, right? Not an indian indeed!). Just in case it helps your government: we simply try to capture terrorists (we also had our own S-11 here in Madrid, you know) judge them and put them into prison if found guilty... and, by the way, we do not longer stand with CIA´s flights carrying the ´unknown´ nameless prisoners to an ´unknown´destiny and overflying my homeland and other ´friendly´countries.
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